Light Before the Sun (Genesis 1) | PD1

Mickael Wilson: Hey this is Michael, I know what you're thinking. We don't have any context here. We just kind of jumped in, said, hey, Steven, what's it like being blind? And well, two things have changed. This is, you know, at this point we've recorded 15 episodes, 14 episodes, technically, and we've changed a few things around. We used to do cold opens. Don't do that anymore. We used to do cliffhangers. Definitely don't do that anymore.

Daniel Horne: He's blind, so you don't have to be afraid. Are you recording right now? No. I would tell you. No you wouldn't. I would!

Mickael Wilson: Let's get something straight here. That is your... That is the voice for gaslighting.

Daniel Horne: ⁓ Fine. am recording. Yup. so Stephen, Umm it like ⁓ you live life being blind?

Mickael Wilson: I know you are. Yeah. this ⁓ from our very first episode, our episode zero, which you will only be able to hear on Patreon. And asked that question initially. It disappeared, I think, because ⁓ at that time didn't have enough space on our recording device. And Steven gave us beautiful explanation and it's gone forever. Not our Patreon. So there go. There you have it.

Steven Clemens: Well... For me, it's a little bit different ⁓ than like someone that can see as an average person. Don't start, don't start with me right now.

Daniel Horne: Nah, Michael. Go on, let's just ignore him. It's a little... Yeah, you wouldn't know. You privileged seeing person. I'm sorry, okay. Proceed. Sight-ist So, okay, proceed.

Mickael Wilson: If you want to hear episode zero, you have to go on Patreon. You have to pay money. Give us your money. If you're hearing this at the very beginning of our podcast, when we actually released an episode, we don't have a Patreon yet. So good luck. Anyways, enjoy the episode. different from someone that can see Of

Steven Clemens: You're Cytist. so I can see all colors. ⁓

Mickael Wilson: I'm sorry.

Daniel Horne: I'm sorry. I'll stop.

Steven Clemens: see how this starts? Do you see how this starts? Fully attacking me.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, I know. I mean, more than half, well actually, it should be half, is decay. Anyways, go on. You're right.

Mickael Wilson: Good people.

Steven Clemens: beating a dead horse and then leaving it to decay.

Mickael Wilson: Okay.

Daniel Horne: Which is what we're gonna do with this ⁓ discussion later on. Here we go. Welcome. ⁓

Steven Clemens: We're gonna have to cut all this

Daniel Horne: I like it. ⁓ it's something. ⁓ Should we from the top? No. Okay. ⁓ Good luck ⁓ So Stephen, you can all the colors. ⁓

Mickael Wilson: We need to go through this question. We're getting this.

Steven Clemens: I'll do rainbow. ⁓ But I just can't see distance as well or like small up close things. So that's why I have my tools to use for ⁓ basically counteracting that, guess you could say. been this way my entire life. ⁓ It's gotten slightly worse since high school. I mean, I won't have my sight as long as most people will. eventually I will get to where I'll need a cane.

Daniel Horne: to feel around. Yes. Okay. You said most people. Does that mean I'm going to go blind one day?

Steven Clemens: It's a possibility.

Mickael Wilson: You're the one who's glasses, dude. ⁓

Daniel Horne: You are too. ⁓

Mickael Wilson: We're to call this the. Three blind goes. You're welcome.

Daniel Horne: That was stellar. Good job. I'm thinking like, if I was blind, what would my life be like? And I'm kind of cheating here because I've talked to you a lot about it. You've said that, ask this question.

Steven Clemens: Well, think about this, everything-

Mickael Wilson: You already started. ⁓

Daniel Horne: I know.

Steven Clemens: Like you can't drive at all so your motor transportation is restricted unless you're using the bus or like a light rail or whatever. Well I guess it is the light rail that we have here.

Daniel Horne: Downtown at least, yeah. But you don't use the light rail.

Steven Clemens: ⁓ I don't. It's too far. I mean, I'm not walking to there and not getting to where I want to. I can walk to like wherever I need to.

Daniel Horne: Yeah. Sure, me too.

Steven Clemens: I don't know about that.

Daniel Horne: What do call me fat good that's great

Steven Clemens: No. ⁓

Mickael Wilson: He's not calling you fat, he's calling you overweight. Get it right.

Daniel Horne: Okay that's fair. My doctor did tell me.

Mickael Wilson: Here's a picture of the health case.

Daniel Horne: I'm like 50 pounds overweight, ⁓

Steven Clemens: ⁓ and muscle-er.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, most. So go on. Well, I'm trying to coax you into the question of like, ⁓ what is your mode of transportation if it's not like light rail?

Mickael Wilson: That's a mess, though.

Steven Clemens: electric electric scooter the only bad part is that I'm restricted just because I can't have a license can't have a plate on it so I can't match speed on the street so I'm like limited to 25 miles an hour

Daniel Horne: Okay. ⁓ That's Cytost, for sure.

Mickael Wilson: I think it's spittist actually. Spittist? Same thing.

Daniel Horne: asbestos I that's it's so poisonous. Amen. Yeah, So you said that you have other devices that you use to help you out with your eyesight. What are some of those? Cause I only know of one.

Mickael Wilson: in a second.

Steven Clemens: you Well, I have my monocular, which I carry everywhere with me. That's my main tool that I use.

Daniel Horne: day. Yeah, so is that kind of like a monocle? Like you're walking around like you're Mr. Peanut? ⁓

Steven Clemens: Yeah, lot of people consider it to be my small telescope or something like that, but it's what they consider a monocular.

Daniel Horne: So not a monocle. It's like a binocular. No, I was trying to make a joke. It wasn't funny.

Mickael Wilson: You I don't think monocle you can adjust. Can you adjust? It wasn't. And we're going right past it. your monocular is adjustable though. you can. Okay.

Daniel Horne: You

Steven Clemens: you measurement near and far. I mean, it depends on how far you can see.

Daniel Horne: How far? Could you spy on someone like 300 yards away?

Steven Clemens: sure. ⁓

Mickael Wilson: You still asking for him?

Daniel Horne: Yeah. No? No. You think I could? Hmm. Here, hand it over. Let me see.

Steven Clemens: I couldn't. Probably.

Mickael Wilson: How are you gonna tell in the dark?

Daniel Horne: I don't know like this room. What is it like 50 feet long? Sure Yeah, let's see if I can see you like what's on that hat over there. There's a hat across the room here folks It's like hanging up on the hat rack right next to the door. So yeah, take a look I'm having trouble already. Let me take off my glasses. Is this the right way? It's all blurry. Is this how life is?

Steven Clemens: Not that blurry, but...

Daniel Horne: I can't get it to focus, hold on, it's getting closer. I found the hat. How do you get it to like, see further? Is it just like set on that distance?

Steven Clemens: Yeah, anyways, there's ones that are at least 2x to 8x. This one that I have is 6x.

Daniel Horne: Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: Hmm.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, it's pretty big.

Mickael Wilson: So you'd have, I think the blurriness is that it's just, it can see pretty far.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, well, it's like focusing on where you're looking. Yeah, that's Instead of zooming in, there's no zoom. ⁓ You want to try it? I'm not my eye is fine. It's not diseased or anything. Steven, I don't know.

Steven Clemens: distance focus.

Mickael Wilson: No.

Daniel Horne: Alright, that was the last one, I swear. That was it.

Mickael Wilson: Nice. Are there any other details about your life that people in...

Daniel Horne: How's your... just gonna do it. How's your love life?

Mickael Wilson: It sucks. ⁓

Daniel Horne: Well, I have inside information because you told me about all this stuff. First off, are you OK going down that road of conversation? You're talking about just like love in general. Relationships. Yeah.

Steven Clemens: I don't know what road.

Mickael Wilson: Is anything off the table?

Steven Clemens: No, not necessarily.

Daniel Horne: Okay, so how is how is that I know that you've told me that being blind makes people I Don't feel awkward around you or treat you differently Which people suck so honestly no surprise room? You've had luck with the two young ladies and Not to not TWO. I mean TOO He can tell you that story

Mickael Wilson: Yeah.

Daniel Horne: Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: I don't understand.

Daniel Horne: Junior hires,

Steven Clemens: I didn't even tell him anything about my site. No.

Daniel Horne: ⁓ they didn't even know. That's crazy. You good over there? Michael just poured himself another glass of wine.

Mickael Wilson: I mean, it's like less and less sweet, but it's still sweet. We should have looked at the sweetness level. semi-sweet wine. That's crazy. Okay, I'm sorry. We're drinking wine and we've gotten three sweet wines just by picking random. It's crazy. Anyways, too young, too young. That's not what I'm talking

Daniel Horne: It's like walking you towards what wine should. ⁓ man. ⁓ in here yeah we are no we got like an hour and a half here so how is trying to get a girlfriend, go through that whole process. Like are you on hinge? Are you on bumble?

Steven Clemens: No, ⁓ I haven't psyched myself up to try dating apps to be honest with you. Okay. I thought about it and as an option, ⁓ sure. It'd be easier meeting someone and then like asking them on a date for sure. And then it's always the question of like, would they see me as a good prospect?

Daniel Horne: Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: you

Daniel Horne: Yeah.

Steven Clemens: as a husband basically. It's what I try and date for is marriage in mind. So I know that me having trouble with sight does bring my level pretty much down. I guess like

Mickael Wilson: I

Daniel Horne: What do you mean by level?

Steven Clemens: the 1 to 10 question, like, where do you lie?

Daniel Horne: So you're like a nine normally. So it brings you down by like an eight.

Steven Clemens: No, I would say I'm five at best.

Daniel Horne: No, that's a lie. We're going to do a video podcast coming up here, folks, and you're going to be able to tell. Steven is straight up lying. He is more than five for sure. Right, Michael?

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Daniel, damn it, he's here.

Daniel Horne: I've considered it but I don't think he's into it. Is this fizzy? A little bit. Nice.

Mickael Wilson: I think that ⁓ concludes our ⁓ cold open, which wasn't very cold. It was colder than our usual warm, I guess.

Daniel Horne: It was colder than warm. I feel like there was more. Like we asked a different question, I'm pretty sure. Did we ask a different question?

Mickael Wilson: We asked more questions in this portion.

Daniel Horne: It was more specific than like how his life as a blind person

Mickael Wilson: No, I think he answered it differently, is really what it was. Well, we have different-

Daniel Horne: Do better.

Steven Clemens: I'm trying, I'm trying.

Mickael Wilson: ⁓ But no, I think that was still good we still got some insight into the life of Steve

Daniel Horne: Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: pretty

Daniel Horne: certain. We did a different question.

Mickael Wilson: pretty sure.

Daniel Horne: Can we do take two? I think we can tighten it up. What? Come on. What? Come on. This is way looser than that first one.

Mickael Wilson: tighten it up. Yeah, it's way looser than the first one. That was a natural progression. We're trying to force something right now. we just got him to answer the question really well. He answered really well. We were just very crazy about it.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, I'll tighten myself up then Michael. That's okay.

Mickael Wilson: That leads us ⁓ out of our cold open, which... Let's look warm open, we'll say. It'll be spit out later. ⁓ This is perfumed

Daniel Horne: All right, bubble thing.

Mickael Wilson: decay.

Daniel Horne: That is a great.

Mickael Wilson: I'm gonna try this again, because you interrupted me.

Daniel Horne: 3, 2,

Mickael Wilson: This

Daniel Horne: That's good.

Mickael Wilson: You know what? We're going with it. This is Perfume Decay, your three-phase ⁓ talk show where we, your hosts, Daniel, Michael, and Stephen, take in and speak on the sweet aroma of the Bible, share some personal experiences, and finally let our conversation naturally progress where it may. Thank you for joining us. This is our official episode one ⁓ and You heard earlier that we were kind of addressing a question that did not get recorded last time I think we said that at the end of the last episode zero if you will we are hoping to You know stay on the same subject matter tighten it up a little bit which will come with time anyways, but

Daniel Horne: Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: this being episode one, we got a little ways to go. We are currently not in our same venue. Normally we're in my parents' house, but today we're at my friend's house, because I'm watching their beautiful dog. ⁓ very beautiful, very nice, very kind dog. ⁓ But, yeah.

Daniel Horne: Very beautiful by the way.

Mickael Wilson: ⁓ It's a nice setup. got some nice things going here. In the future, we're hoping to have more things, which we will have Daniel announce here.

Daniel Horne: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Yeah. So in the future, ⁓ I mean, you guys heard it when I was talking to Steven, I guess we were all listening to him answer that question. Right. ⁓ I mentioned that, sooner or later, we're gonna, we're gonna start up a YouTube channel. We're gonna, ⁓ do some live streaming there and we're going to do it everywhere else. Anything that you can think of, ⁓ we'll be there. And, if we can, yeah, we'll be there for you. And that means Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok, our own website, Spotify, Apple podcasts, some Chinese social media, whatever. We perform live for like the Mexican cartel, stuff like that. Yeah, I mean.

Mickael Wilson: anywhere else maybe Yeah, if they take us hostage, we'll definitely get them. If they like us that much. Either that or just that. I mean, we're white.

Daniel Horne: Right. And their favorite product is white, right?

Mickael Wilson: ⁓ because it's cocaine.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, right. So yeah, live straight to your your your mind balls. Your eyeballs, your mind balls, your balls. ⁓ yeah. All the ball. Nevermind. ⁓ no. ⁓ It's not. No, because we're. Here for everybody, not just those those men. ⁓

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Not those ones. Not the specific ones. Get your mind out of... Not just the men. The women too. So true. ⁓

Daniel Horne: to. So Steven, how's life being blind?

Mickael Wilson: No, we are, yeah, we already answered that question. ⁓ crap. No, no, no, no, What's, no, we're not sorry. On the cold open, we just introduced the.

Daniel Horne: ⁓ we're starting from the top. Okay, all right. All right, but for real, Steven, I hear you have a specific job. What is that job?

Steven Clemens: Whoa. I know that we're supposed to go over to ⁓ Genesis 1, chapter 1 through 5.

Daniel Horne: Alright, let me pull out my phone. I love how we didn't bring Bibles

Mickael Wilson: Sweet. Yeah. Yeah, and we didn't bring this. I technically have one in my bag, you know, I figured I'd, you know, just feel. Yeah. I want to lower myself down to your level. Be relatable. Be all things to all people.

Daniel Horne: You're just blending in. I tried to- You're like- be relatable. Exactly. Just as Paul would say it.

Mickael Wilson: Genesis one. We did touch on this in episode zero. I think based off of our conversations that we could go a little bit further, but I do want to kind of rehash a little bit of.

Daniel Horne: in episode zero.

Steven Clemens: Well, I think going over it just a little bit does help to continue to kind of build up.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. ⁓ wants to read this.

Daniel Horne: You don't? Alright. I read it last time.

Mickael Wilson: You were, you technically read it. I think I'll read the entire...

Daniel Horne: Chapter? Chapter. ⁓ my gosh.

Steven Clemens: you

Mickael Wilson: Let's do it. Genesis 1, 1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void and darkness was over the surface of the deep and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. And God said, let there be light and there was light. God saw that the light was good and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light and the darkness He called night. the light day, sorry, and the darkness he called night. And there was evening and there was morning one day. Then God said, let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters and let it separate the waters from the waters. God made the expanse and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse. And it was so. God called the expanse heaven and there was evening and there was morning a second day. Then God said, Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear. And it was so. God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas. And God saw that it was good. Then God said, Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them. And it was so. The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them after their kind. And God saw that it was good, and there was evening and there was morning, a third day. And God said, Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years, and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth. And it was so. God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He made the stars also. God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth and to govern the day and the night to separate the light from the and God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day. Then God said, Let the waters team with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens. God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind, and God saw that it was good. God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas and let birds multiply on the earth. There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. Then God said, Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth after their kind. And it was so. God made the beasts of the earth after their kind and the cattle after their kind and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind. And God saw that it was good. Then God said, let us make man in our image according to our likeness and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth. and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth. God created man in his own image. In the image of God, he created him. Male and female, he created them. God blessed them and God said to them, be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it. and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth. Then God said, Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed. It shall be food for you. And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and everything that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food. And it was so. God saw all that he had made and behold it was very good and there was evening and there was morning the sixth day.

Daniel Horne: now.

Mickael Wilson: So previously, ⁓ We focused very much on the first portion versus one through five. Yeah. To kind of.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, we drilled down.

Mickael Wilson: reiterate a little bit. ⁓ We talked a lot about the fact that God used his word to create everything, which we ⁓ refer back to John 1, ⁓ which was John referring to Jesus as the Word, ⁓ because the Word was in the beginning, the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Nothing was made that was made without the word And the word became flesh ⁓ And then we also talked at length about the light and what the implications of that could be Allegorical possibilities real and real possibilities and But I really want to emphasize that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth is the credibility of the Bible. And I want to nail that down because... This is the Word of God. And if God created the heavens and the earth, then clearly, He can make a book. He can put words on a page through people that He wants to write His book. He can use His Spirit that loomed over the surface of the deep.

Daniel Horne: ⁓ yeah.

Mickael Wilson: He can do all these things. He can have Jesus be the Word and become flesh. mean, can surely sustain a book. Even if it's, I mean, because a lot of it was ⁓ oral tradition, can do that. Yeah, he can absolutely do that. And I definitely...

Daniel Horne: Yeah. of years.

Mickael Wilson: We touched on it a little bit before, I really want that to be at the forefront of our minds because this is to carry us through the rest of the book. If you can't get past the credibility that is laid out literally in the first few words, then it's going to be really hard to believe anything that happens in the rest of the Bible. It really is.

Daniel Horne: You say that, but then I think about things like Jonah. Like that's just a ridiculous, crazy story. Yeah. I think of the, I forget the exact details, but the donkey talking to stop this guy from going underneath the door that, I mean, there's an angel there waiting to kill him. Yeah. Like those kinds of things are just ridiculous. That's insane. Yeah. Like Noah. Come on. What? So.

Mickael Wilson: Mm-hmm.

Daniel Horne: I don't know if I see what you're saying. Like if you don't see the impact of God being able to create everything, ⁓ gives him the credibility to sustain a puny little book. ⁓ no disrespect on the Bible.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, no, I'm not saying by any stretch that's gonna be easy to believe all of it. Our whole lives are marked by not believing, by doubting literally everything in the Bible. So yeah. So I mean, it's, yeah, but it, it is God saying you can and you should believe that this is true.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, comment on Which it's like a challenge or... Sure. More like a command though.

Mickael Wilson: I mean, it's more him just telling us. And I don't think there's anything really saying here that we have to believe that. Because if it was a command, then it would absolutely be, you you have to believe this in order to be saved. there's nothing in the Bible saying that you have to believe that this is exactly how it happened.

Daniel Horne: Yeah. So Jesus died on cross for you. He died, He rose again for your sins on the third day. And ⁓ He also created the earth ⁓ in six days and rested on the seventh. And if you don't believe that, you're not saved.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Yeah, there's no, there's nothing saying that. It's, it's, mean, you know, we'll talk about it at length later, but, you know, God is a jealous God. He doesn't want any other name on your lips to be worshipped.

Daniel Horne: Okay, that's kind of crazy. You know, like, if the gospel is like us believing that Jesus died for us, right? And believing that that is a sufficient price. ⁓ The fact that he doesn't also force us to, I guess not force, command us to believe that he created the earth, number one is selfless, but it also means that we're more important to him than the entire earth that he created.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Well, I mean, I, we don't necessarily know, but like, if, if you're the thief on the cross next to Jesus, if you don't got your, yeah, if you don't have your Torah figured out and you don't know that God created the heavens and earth in the very beginning, like you're screwed. You got nothing. Like, but, but it's not, it's all who call in the name of the Lord, meaning you recognize that you need to repent of your sin.

Daniel Horne: Peace and cues. Hey.

Mickael Wilson: That's an important piece. You recognize that Jesus died for your sin and then rose again so that you that we might have eternal life. That's it. mean, yeah, that's it. That's not that's a little bit of the gospel. That's the whole.

Daniel Horne: So this is like dad lore that we're reading

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, I mean, it is important because we, again, this is the credibility of the Bible being laid out for us. is the credibility of what is being told to us later in this work.

Daniel Horne: So we're laying out the middle ground here. So it's not ultimate, but it's not nothing. Yeah. Yeah. It's non salvatic. It might be a cornerstone for some people, but it's definitely not a close fist kind of thing as they say. Right.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Well, it's not salvific, I'll say. I mean, I've yet to find anything that's like, it's, you have to believe in the specific origin of the world in order for Jesus to accept you for being a sinner.

Daniel Horne: So ⁓ I hesitate to go down this route because it might waste a lot of time, but I think it's interesting. ⁓ What is the ⁓ impacts of believing in, say, evolution as a Christian?

Mickael Wilson: I mean, definitely think that that's something that we can touch on later, but I mean it isn't I definitely want to say that it is important that we wrestle with what the Bible actually says ⁓ because At the same time Jesus is the word And I said it last time too, I think that there is a sense that

Daniel Horne: Later.

Mickael Wilson: The word of God, the Bible is a, in a sense, I put it as a manifestation, but it is a way in which God is, or Jesus is revealed to us. He is the word. And so this is the word being revealed to us. And so it is truth, right? It is the truth. And so, you know, however, we come upon certain things, ultimately the word of God is to bring us to Jesus, right? So, yeah.

Daniel Horne: I'd say throughout history, we've seen so many people that believe the wrong things, but there doesn't mean it. It's a salvation thing. It doesn't mean that they're in hell right now.

Mickael Wilson: They're just dogmatic about something that they don't need to be dogmatic about. should be focused on spreading the gospel and calling people to salvation and repentance and repentance, salvation,

Daniel Horne: for But people aren't always smart. People don't always do what they're told to do. And that kind of highlights the whole story here of God creating the earth and it's not even to like, hey, high five bro, look at what I did here. Not that at all. ⁓

Mickael Wilson: I mean, we're filled with pride. Well, it's interesting because if we look at this, God creates all this stuff. And it's crazy. The expanse, the separating the waters, the heavens, He creates the lights, He creates all the creatures, all the plants, everything, right? And then He creates man. And then He says, hey, this is yours.

Steven Clemens: you

Daniel Horne: Mm-hmm.

Mickael Wilson: Be fruitful and multiply and subdue what I've given you. I've given you all the creatures, every single last one of them, all the plants, every single last one of them. It's yours. So do it. And it's like how many people create something and then say, ⁓ Hey, by the way, this is yours. Parents. That's a good point. But it's interesting because this is the God of creation. He created everything. created, I mean, you're bringing up parents, but he created the people and then he just gives it to them. ⁓ That's, I mean, that's wild, fascinating. As humans, that's hard for us to do even when it's a fortune, when it's... you know, a company or whatever, a house. You want to hold onto it. Yeah. It's ours. You want to hold onto it or not give it to your family because maybe you don't trust them as much.

Daniel Horne: They're gonna squander it. Whatever government's never gonna spend my money correctly God doesn't need 10 % Come on Give me everything he's got he owns the entire thing Why does he need my measly 10? Yeah

Mickael Wilson: Right. Yeah. ⁓ man, that's some deep stuff right there. Stephen, do you have any things you want to speak about initially before we kind of make our way through?

Steven Clemens: Hmm not much ⁓ I've always been like a curiosity question ⁓ So like God and Jesus are forever eternal we all know

Mickael Wilson: Hmm. Hmm.

Steven Clemens: What do you think the conversation between God and Jesus was whenever God was making everything?

Mickael Wilson: Thank you. Hmm. Hey, hey What do you think about this? No, okay. So you said last time like the spirit was kind of surveying everything Yeah, well go looming over the deep. Mm-hmm. And then he's gonna go this goes over here. Yeah, over there. So maybe maybe it was like Spirit comes up. He's like, hey guys, so, know that project we've been working on And he's like look at this

Daniel Horne: We'll check this.

Mickael Wilson: What do think? How do you feel about California?

Daniel Horne: There's gonna be a lot fires there.

Mickael Wilson: don't know. Do we have shadow? Do monument in California?

Daniel Horne: Hey, people will have trials. Yeah. Maybe that's why California exists.

Mickael Wilson: They will. The trial for all of humanity. Right.

Daniel Horne: Like we don't even pick like, I don't know, like China or Russia. Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: That's funny. Not in Germany, surely.

Daniel Horne: No, they've always had like the best leaders there.

Mickael Wilson: I'm pretty sure they've always been kind to every human. Yeah, ⁓ no. Never committed genocide. I think the Russians too. KGB from California.

Daniel Horne: I don't think they've killed a single person. Yeah. No. Yeah, no, they're there. Yeah. Well, no, I think they originated in Russia, but they're yeah, but they're. They've always been known for. Like I was reading it the other day in a textbook that I kept from. No, it's not. And it's a little known fact, but the KGB.

Steven Clemens: you

Mickael Wilson: This taking way too ⁓ this isn't a joke. ⁓ okay. I like this.

Daniel Horne: Um, and, uh, you know, all the, uh, assorted groups from Germany, uh, throughout the past hundred or so years, um, they've all, they were all actually known for their peacekeeping. Hmm. Yeah. And everything that we've heard about them is just propaganda.

Mickael Wilson: interest.

Daniel Horne: Anyways, I heard this from a guy in Russia. Not sure, like he told me to check out this page in the textbook. So I did and it seemed interesting. But when, uh, you're on Korea.

Mickael Wilson: ⁓ man ⁓ This is most racist... I like how last episode we started off with a Nazi joke and now we're starting off with...

Daniel Horne: We're both. Both genocides. No. Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: This is a joke we're joking we're getting canceled right now Wow

Daniel Horne: It's a yolk. All right, where were we though? Talking about...

Mickael Wilson: So yeah.

Daniel Horne: Steven was asking like what was the reaction between the bros, the three bros as they were building the trio. The holy trio. Oh man.

Mickael Wilson: The three main ones. Are Christians gonna listen to this? I don't know. I question every moment. That's true. That's true.

Daniel Horne: They were chillin', they were making their... And... What were they?

Mickael Wilson: Well, I always think of it like, okay, God the Father, he's kind of like, hey, I got this great idea. And then he goes to the Spirit, he's like, yep, why don't you map all this out? Then he goes to the Son, or Jesus, and he says, hey, you're gonna be a carpenter when you descend to the earth, so build it up, Because he's the Word.

Daniel Horne: Mm-hmm.

Steven Clemens: Thanks.

Daniel Horne: Right, I was gonna make a joke about like, do think Jesus drew the short stick? But, goodness gracious, I'm actually curious about that. how is that any better? Like, you know what I'm getting at? Like, I don't know if I asked that the right way, but why would the spirit get one job, God gets the other, and then Jesus just, he gets stuck with this.

Mickael Wilson: The thing is though is that, I mean, it's a joke obviously, but it's like, they're in perfect unity. I don't think they ever had a conversation, you know? I think if they did have a conversation, that might be what it looked like, but you know, at the end of the day, it's like... It's like me and you, right? When I'm thinking something, you think it, and then we just, it's in unison. It just happens, right? And I mean, if you want, I would think of it like that. It just happens. They just look at each other, or they just know because they're one being, right? But I think it is interesting to think about a conversation because... even still, is all about communication. there is a sense of communication, but it's a holy communication. So it's perfect in a... I mean, we can't even wrap our heads around it. I've never heard of communication that...

Daniel Horne: I can't, That's perfect. Perfect. That's always the go-to. No, for like marriage advice.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. For me. Oh yeah. Communication issues. One of my biggest pet peeves. Anyways, appreciate that. Yeah. Totally. Let's, um, kind of go section by section here. Sure. I think we already have gone over a one through five. Yeah. Pretty well. Um, but six through eight. Uh,

Daniel Horne: You're kidding. Why can't people just read my mind? Yeah, let's do it. You want me to refresh?

Mickael Wilson: I'll refresh it and you guys can speak first. So starting in six, then God said, there be an expanse in the midst of the waters and let it separate the waters from the waters. God made the expanse and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse. And it was so. God called the expanse heaven and there was evening and there was morning, a second day. What does another version say?

Daniel Horne: That's what mine said. Yeah. So I think this kind of answers our last question about like, ⁓ was there actually water? Like did God create water or was water just there? And I think the first, the first thought that I had here was, ⁓ it seems like they're using really broad words. It's like language hasn't even been invented yet. And so they're using ⁓ terms or sentences like, let it separate the waters from the waters, which isn't great grammar, but hey, know, when language is being created.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah.

Daniel Horne: Like, it's kind of hard to describe physical things if there never has been. Right. That's my thought. Right. ⁓ And then it says, and then God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse, which the expanse is the first word for land, right? Like continents, whatever. Separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. So, well actually I'm not even sure, because now it's saying expanse in a way that doesn't seem like land.

Mickael Wilson: I don't think it expances his land ⁓ Because he it does specify ⁓ Later God let the ⁓ Going to verse 9 then God said let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place and let the dry land appear I called the dry land earth and the yeah, so I think I think expanse almost refers to

Daniel Horne: You don't think so? What do you think it is? ⁓ Reading ahead. ⁓

Mickael Wilson: space.

Daniel Horne: You think so? was thinking like atmosphere because water above water below.

Mickael Wilson: Isn't I think other what version are you reading from? I think in other versions it actually Says like the firmament or something like that ⁓ Between the waters let there be a vault and IV ⁓

Daniel Horne: ⁓ exo-spiritual version. right.

Steven Clemens: I reach for the King James version.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, that one's probably cut from

Mickael Wilson: Go for that. I think that's the one that says firmament.

Steven Clemens: We're looking at verse six.

Daniel Horne: I think so.

Mickael Wilson: and NLT says, let there be a space between the waters to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, Waters of the Heavens, that sounds like clouds to me. So this is like water on the earth. ⁓ It gets all steamy, clouds get up in sky.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah.

Daniel Horne: Hey, they were putting in hard work, dude. So nothing about the land. I was mistaken there. But do you see that language? Like it's like they're reusing the same words that describe a very similar thing. Well, as if there was it was hard to describe.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, it's it's go for it.

Steven Clemens: And God said, let there be a ferment in the midst of the waters and let it divide the waters from.

Daniel Horne: It's The water is from the waters. ⁓

Steven Clemens: So I would say it's just like parting like water itself, but yeah, he's calling it two different bodies

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, but then it says it describes a below and above and so I would wonder

Daniel Horne: ⁓

Steven Clemens: Yeah, and God said, ⁓ God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament from waters which were above the firmament. And it was so.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, so I I think if we were to look at this in a visual sense ⁓ Going back to one through five, you know, we have if we if we look at a horizon line This is great for audio podcasts. ⁓ yeah, if we look at her

Steven Clemens: think it does refer to the land.

Daniel Horne: Right. arm out in front of his face.

Mickael Wilson: horizontally, we've got the horizon line we have the deep and then we have darkness right kind of above it and then Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters. So it's almost like we go into the water and we just kind of create a space there and then there's the the above section and then there's the below section and then the the ⁓ God called the expanse heaven

Daniel Horne: You lost.

Mickael Wilson: So it's, mean, I think heaven, I don't know what the other versions say, but I almost want to say that it's, is it heaven or is it?

Daniel Horne: Let me reread this. Yeah, it says heaven.

Mickael Wilson: Okay, in the NIV, God called the vault or the fervent or whatever sky. I think it's almost a sense of the heavens which can refer to the sky. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of, I mean, there's a lot of ways to kind of look at that, but that's what I would imagine.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, you look up to the heavens. ⁓ Okay, so is there anything beyond just what we see there? That's how it always in the background.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. I don't know what a thermostat is, but.

Steven Clemens: Yeah, it wrote, the King's James, ⁓ firmament is the vast expanse of sky.

Mickael Wilson: Okay.

Daniel Horne: Yeah. Created by God to separate the waters from above, from the waters below.

Mickael Wilson: I mean, I don't I I feel like creation in some ways from here is fairly straightforward. Yeah. Yeah

Daniel Horne: Okay. Well, I think right now I've caught myself looking backwards, ⁓ knowing the full story. Yeah. So let's just, ⁓ take it this way. What we know is the Holy Spirit has been hovering over waters and now, ⁓ God has separated the, ⁓ the waters, which used to be one water. Well, into two bodies of water with the firmament, sky, heavens, whatever it is in between. And there's light. Right.

Mickael Wilson: All right, so. and there's light. Now, if we remember the few, we should definitely keep going because if we remember it talks about the specific lights and it talks about the stars and the celestial bodies and all that. I think let's, let's go back to the light and dark thing later. ⁓ revisit it. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Horne: Okay. Revisit. Well, let's move on. Verse nine. Shall I go for it? And God said, let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place and let the dry land appear. There's the land. And it was so. And God called the dry land earth and the waters that were gathered together, he called seas and God saw that it was good. Any comments?

Mickael Wilson: Boom.

Daniel Horne: Shall I continue?

Mickael Wilson: and yeah, keep going. Okay.

Daniel Horne: And God said, lit the earth, sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed and fruits, fruit trees bearing fruits in which is their seed, each according to its kind on the earth. And it was so the earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed, according to their own kinds and trees bearing fruit in which their, ⁓ in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening and there was morning the third day.

Mickael Wilson: That's so interesting.

Daniel Horne: how it repeats.

Mickael Wilson: No, it's just, I mean, you always think it's like, okay, he makes all these plants on the dry land.

Daniel Horne: Notice how he doesn't talk about vegetables.

Steven Clemens: Just the fruit.

Mickael Wilson: Well, this is vegetation.

Daniel Horne: He said that it says vegetation, but that's like implying that that's like just part of the process. The fruit's growing on the vegetation. The wheat, the corn is growing on the vegetation. So veggies are from the fall is my point.

Mickael Wilson: Okay.

Steven Clemens: over too. like with any like ecosystem as you would want to think. ⁓ I usually find it so interesting to read over this. I've read over this like multiple times ⁓ and just thought of like

Daniel Horne: Yeah.

Steven Clemens: How interesting is it that God starts at a very base level and just keeps on piling layers upon this. And then we're not even to the final point of the seven days. Yeah. Yeah. And everything comes back as a cycle. He created it that way. Crazy to me. It's just like he's thought ahead so much that you wouldn't even have thought of that.

Daniel Horne: Mm-hmm.

Mickael Wilson: Hmm.

Daniel Horne: Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: And that's...

Steven Clemens: No.

Mickael Wilson: It's interesting. I mean, God created these words, right? Like you were talking about, I mean, we're talking about this is the word of God. We're talking about Jesus being the word. We're talking about God uttering these words and creating, right? And, you know, we're looking at these different versions of the word that are saying the same thing, but God gave us these words, right?

Daniel Horne: Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: to explain for ourselves what, or to explain for Moses, I guess, what is going on here. And he knew that. He knew that these words were going to be used. But at the same time, we could have been more people, you know? Like dry land didn't have to happen, you know? All these plants could have technically been underwater. Everything could have been underwater, you know? there could have just been the sun outside or whatever. Technically, mean, if we go deep into imagination, none of this needed to be the way that it is, that it was, right? So it's like, he was very intentional with it. ⁓ In all of creation, he was just like, all of it. All of it has a purpose. All of it has a reasoning. And I mean, if we were to stop here, like we were saying last episode, like if we were to stop here, be like, what the heck is going on here? If we're chilling with the trio, we're going to be like, yo guys. Like you said it it's interesting but like we're on day two There's just we're on day three and you threw on some plants on some Dusty stuff. What are we? What are we doing here? Where are we going? Like why? Yeah Like what about this other dark stuff like Because I'm still imagining like, you know, there was the deep and everything Yeah

Daniel Horne: I'm already overwhelmed. What's going on? There's no sun yet.

Mickael Wilson: And then, you know, there's just the dry land and then there's just this sky. And it's just kind of going on forever, which maybe we might be feeding into flat earth here right now, but like.

Daniel Horne: Yeah. So far it has not described the ground earth.

Mickael Wilson: It hasn't. But, so I was actually thinking about that in the last section, like maybe the waters below could also be like, you know, kind of in a circular way, you know what I'm saying? I don't think so either. But I was trying to find out. felt it little bit. Yeah. But anyways, yeah, that's, that's a good point. I like that. Um.

Daniel Horne: I don't think so.

Mickael Wilson: Anything else for the rest of that?

Daniel Horne: No, I'd like to emphasize what Stephen was saying because I'm fascinated with natural systems as well. ⁓ And there's just so many of them. Like they're in nature everywhere you look. Like you've got the life cycle of plants, you've got the life cycle of animals. ⁓ Stephen and I are kind of into keeping fish as pets. And part of that is there's a cycle. there's, you feed the fish and sometimes they eat it, sometimes they don't. That food has to go somewhere. It it decays. The fish, their excrement like that has to go somewhere too. And that's all eaten by bacteria and it's all turned into food that's eaten by the plants. And so it's like this continuous cycle. And if you do it right, ⁓

Mickael Wilson: Yeah.

Daniel Horne: You don't have to clean the tank for a long time because you're mimicking nature.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah.

Daniel Horne: And so the fact that, like, that's just barely scratching the surface. Like you look at your body and think of all the cycles that we have in our own body. Ridiculous. Like just put aside the, ⁓ the cycle that you're thinking about right now, but I'm thinking about like the cycle of like energy ATP. Like I'm talking about, ⁓ you know, ⁓ cycle of insulin. Like think about that. That's, that's insane. Like you have, you eat sugar.

Mickael Wilson: Thanks.

Daniel Horne: certain amount of sugar gets released in your bloodstream, but that's toxic for you, but it's still necessary to build that ATP, right? ⁓

Mickael Wilson: Yeah.

Daniel Horne: But your body naturally balances it with a hormone called insulin. And it does whatever it does, which I'm not even going to try to scratch that. It's so complex. People that know about it don't even know about it. ⁓ And so that's that's I just want to emphasize that like that's everywhere. Like creation is astounding and God shrugs it off.

Mickael Wilson: For us. just, yeah.

Steven Clemens: Like it's just a simple flick of their ass?

Daniel Horne: Yeah. He's like Salt Bae, you know? Except Novigo.

Mickael Wilson: That's crazy. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's great to bring up the fact that God saw that it was good. ⁓ I'll read the next section too.

Daniel Horne: He's about to sprinkle some stars on us. Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: Cause this is, this is the big one here for us. Oh. Then God said, let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth. And it was so God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He made the stars also. God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth and to govern the day and the night and to separate the light from the darkness and God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning. Light, initially, was a concept.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, and the proof is in the way that you described it.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, because because we know day and night to be governed by the greater light and the lesser light. Yeah. But initially, I mean, what it seems to me now is that the darkness existed. and I mean, maybe it was just

Daniel Horne: sun and

Mickael Wilson: the presence of nothing. And then God created light, is the presence of himself. yeah, because going back to what I said last episode, too, like I almost imagined the spirit of God being light.

Daniel Horne: No, it says it, that literally was what happened.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. But no, so yeah, he creates light as this concept is really what it seems like.

Daniel Horne: to drive home your point look at verse six and for the days and years ⁓ no that's a reference six nevermind ⁓ not verse six where are we at I think 15 yeah and let them be lights talking about the let's see seasons and days and years right yeah which is after the where do we talk about the sun

Mickael Wilson: interesting.

Daniel Horne: It's after that. Okay. And God made the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the nights and the stars. ⁓ no, no, no, it's before that. Verse 14.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, in verse 14. Yeah, let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night and let them be for signs and seasons for days and years.

Daniel Horne: But my idea was in 15. I guess not my idea. and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth. Why would you say it that way? Let there be lights in the in heavens to give light. We have no doubt.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, because light is, was a concept. Okay. Dang. Lights now producing lights. Producing light. Wow.

Daniel Horne: This is. So that drives your point. Photon. Yeah, that's how conceptual this was.

Mickael Wilson: I have never once thought about that. I've never thought that the initial light described was not like the sun or the stars or whatever.

Daniel Horne: It's like, It's kind of hard to describe. It's like, Hey, give me that light over there. And you don't know that like, ⁓ the light makes the light.

Mickael Wilson: What? Yeah. Yeah. it's interesting because I thought the Holy Spirit made the light. Then God uses that as the clock. first, nice. Well, I almost want to say like, it's maybe, maybe this light was set there, separating the lightness, the light from the dark to be the beginning of time. So maybe God isn't

Daniel Horne: Yeah. First multi-tool.

Mickael Wilson: creating necessarily, or God isn't only creating the light, He's creating time right now. Because that's when the cycle starts, right? When the light is present. Well, true, yeah, later on. But this is when the first day starts, right?

Steven Clemens: seasons. ⁓

Daniel Horne: you talking about the Holy Spirit light or are you talking about the light's light?

Mickael Wilson: That's gonna be rough. I'm talking about the light light. The light's light. Because yeah, because then because really the first thing that's being created here then would be night and day.

Daniel Horne: Okay, the lights light. But that's not true. Go back to the Holy Spirit Bar, I'm pretty sure it says, and there was night and there was day. Is there not?

Mickael Wilson: It says, darkness was over the surface of the deep and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface. And then God said, let there be light, and there was light. God saw the light was good and God separated the light from the darkness. And then he called light day and darkness he called night.

Daniel Horne: So he somehow separated the light that the Holy Spirit produced ⁓ from the darkness.

Mickael Wilson: Well, I think we injected the Spirit of God producing light from last week. Yeah, From the That was just my idea.

Daniel Horne: LW. from the portion where says the Holy Spirit was hovering over the surface of the water.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, because because because we were talking about how these things can represent whatever like the light shining into the deep which is the dark and scary and that whole thing. Yeah, so yeah can So yeah, I think we injected that that portion but Even still I think that's really interesting that this is the first day was when time was created Yeah, think I like that because

Daniel Horne: Yeah. I didn't realize that. Yeah, let me check.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, and there was evening and there was morning. one day.

Daniel Horne: So do you think that was, well, hold on. is the first day is in verse five. ⁓ that's what you're So that's not when the season started. That was before the sun and the moon. So how did that work?

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. So that's what I'm saying. It's the creation of time. So it's a time. Yeah, it's a concept. And time is defined by light and dark.

Daniel Horne: this point it's a concept still.

Mickael Wilson: doing their cycle, I guess, is really the way that it seems. I cannot wrap my head around this.

Daniel Horne: And again, this is, this is before light and dark represented good and evil. That's crazy.

Mickael Wilson: sure yeah well I mean mean maybe maybe because well happen evil I mean I've heard it described this way and I've I've kind of found it to be this this way but evil really is just the absence of God is it not

Daniel Horne: Satan hasn't fallen. ⁓ no. No? It's much worse. It's much worse. ⁓ the... opposition.

Mickael Wilson: much worse? What's worse than not moving without God? Well, the opposition, but.

Daniel Horne: Like someone who, what's worse, ⁓ Bill Gates giving you a million bucks, Bill Gates not giving you a million bucks, Bill Gates suing the crap out of you, your family, all your friends and burying you in debt for generations.

Mickael Wilson: But if you have God.

Daniel Horne: You see my point there.

Mickael Wilson: I mean, yeah. It's a way I've heard it said, but I mean, but without God. Because sin can't be in his presence.

Steven Clemens: Well, I think what Daniel's trying to get at is being with God is bad, but being with God could be worse.

Daniel Horne: not.

Mickael Wilson: against ⁓ okay. Yeah. So like like the idea of the false teachers their punish punishment is is hard

Steven Clemens: Yeah.

Daniel Horne: But even just in the fact that you are opposing God means that ⁓ because God's nature is ⁓ so good and so ⁓ for you and ⁓ wants to build you up and like bless you, it's the total opposite of that. It's not neutral. It's these people, this evil wants to tear you apart. It wants to destroy you. It wants to make your life a living hell. Evil is not the inactivity of God.

Mickael Wilson: Hmm.

Daniel Horne: It is the perfect opposite. It's animalistic. It's, Like you look at say a more secular society and you're like, oh man, it kind of sucks that those people live in that. that situation where they don't have the same freedoms that we do, for example, ⁓ Like they can't walk around the street with their Bible in hand and read it wherever they want. They can't just talk about it anywhere. They can't go to church, et cetera, right? But what's, I don't know. Okay. Now I'm talking myself out of this because like,

Mickael Wilson: No. Well here, the idea is that isn't that the absence of God in the things that are being done?

Daniel Horne: Can you say that a different way?

Mickael Wilson: So you're, cause you're talking about these lands where people cannot show their faith basically.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, I was, I jumped to the evil side right away. Like there's, there's the middle ground, which is like, let's say it's a country that doesn't care one way or another. ⁓ in fact, they'd rather you be in the middle. ⁓

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, right. Well, because I would almost say too, ⁓ that the devil wants us to be a church.

Daniel Horne: to be in the middle.

Mickael Wilson: to be at church, be in, like you're saying, in the middle, but not be invested, not truly believe, not truly know what our faith, not be repentant, whatever. I mean, we can call it American Christianity, where we're, you know, a lot of people are just sitting there in church and that's the place that he wants you to be in. It's not, it's, and it is devoid of God because it's not God.

Daniel Horne: But even that, even in that, like what's Satan's intent behind that? Is it neutral?

Mickael Wilson: No. But it is devoid of God because he wants us to be a part.

Daniel Horne: Yeah. But Satan's intent there is to pull you away from God. Yeah. ⁓ so that you suffer the ultimate price. Yeah. I mean, we pull ourselves away easily. He just has to distract us enough. Right? I mean, we distract ourselves enough, but yeah, you can really help out the process process. And the, the intent behind it is not to like be neutral.

Steven Clemens: for

Mickael Wilson: Right, pull us away. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm.

Daniel Horne: Like Satan's not going after you and I thinking, whatever happens happens. I think because the heaven, whatever, if goes to hell, whatever. Like, no, he's trying to get us to go to hell. Yeah, because he hates us and wants to destroy us. And so that's evil. That's right. And so that's why I would argue like the lack of God is not ⁓ evil.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but it's not good.

Daniel Horne: Yeah. But it's also not evil. It's just nothing.

Mickael Wilson: We can talk about that more at length later. like what you're talking about.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, I think the reason why I hammer that so hard is because that's another way that Satan can use ⁓ to convince people that evil is not that bad. And good isn't that good.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I would look at the other way is, it's okay if you don't have God. Yeah. ⁓ that's not evil necessarily. ⁓

Daniel Horne: You're to die and just cease to exist.

Mickael Wilson: Which I guess we wouldn't call it evil, but we would not call it good. Yeah. Yeah. Which, which means. Right.

Daniel Horne: No, it's just that it is what it is kind of thing. Like, no one really wants to die. Even if they believe that. Like, they want to keep living, because it's good. But that's Satan's job is to flatten everything. To make everything look the same. I mean, you can, I mean, for all the conspiracy theories out there, you can see it with like, supposedly what the government's doing. Blinding all of us. Put your tinfoil hats on everybody. ⁓ Blinding us with, with propaganda so that ⁓ we don't know what's, what's up and what's down. We don't know what's right and what's wrong. And that's how you confuse the people to a point where they just don't care anymore.

Mickael Wilson: No.

Daniel Horne: They just move on and they go about things that they can actually control. Literally trying to do.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, that gets easier with the transfer of information.

Daniel Horne: Who do you think the politicians learned this from? Straight from Saganors. ⁓

Mickael Wilson: I'm He's talking in their ear. I mean, some of them.

Daniel Horne: Maybe. Sure, sure. Yeah. But it's I'm saying is like, I mean, it's active, it's real, and it's it's not a secret. That's your your. Everybody was supposed to phrase everybody and their mom. Yeah, knows how to manipulate people and knows how to flatten the truth.

Mickael Wilson: active. Like, it's not silent. Yeah, I've heard of it.

Daniel Horne: and make it appear as close to what is not the truth.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. As possible. Well, it's like with, with children, it's like, ⁓ but you know, I didn't do that over there. if they have siblings, it's like, yeah, it's like, ⁓ but I'm not that bad. Right. But it's like, no, but you still did the thing that you did. Both are bad. Let's get something straight here. You're both being punished. You both broke that window. Yeah. Just because you were standing there and you were telling him to do it doesn't mean you didn't. Yeah.

Daniel Horne: ⁓ that reminds me of a story when I was a young kid and me and my brother were outside in the backyard. and we were playing, ⁓ you know, like baseball with like one of those, ⁓ hollow plastic ones and like this really oversized orange, ⁓ baseball. ⁓ And my brother is tossing the ball to me. Yeah. And, ⁓ I hit it, I hit it like a home run and it just flies and it hits straight into the glass. ⁓ like the specialized glass, ⁓ in my mom's kit.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah.

Daniel Horne: and just like, know, vaulted ceilings, like this nice, like, like double pane, like very, very nice piece of glass and it just shattered. ⁓ not shattered. Broke for sh**. And so me and my brother look at each other for half second and we just like take off. Like whoever gets to the parents first gets to tell the story. And so we're like yelling at the top of our lungs as our parents come out of the bedroom and like go out there to see what's going on.

Mickael Wilson: Sure.

Daniel Horne: it's an inspect issue, right? And we all were walking through the living room. can see it from there. literally the window broke in the shape of a D and I just started laughing. I was like, whatever story I was going to say, nevermind. Cause like, that's only like the evidence is right.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. It was me guys my signature is right there on the end that's so funny, that's I mean, yeah, that's ⁓ Let's yeah, it's good stuff though

Daniel Horne: My bad, I shouldn't have signed it. Move on.

Mickael Wilson: Where were we? Steven, wanna try your hand at this one?

Steven Clemens: Lost the verse.

Mickael Wilson: We're on 20.

Daniel Horne: Hit 20.

Steven Clemens: there. And God said, let the waters bring forth abundantly or

Daniel Horne: Right? Yeah. Yeah. I've done that.

Steven Clemens: abundantly, the moving creatures that... Half life. King James.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, what are you doing? I can't even read King James.

Steven Clemens: Usually in my head it sounds so much

Daniel Horne: It does. It's way more poetic.

Steven Clemens: And... huh? foul that many fly above the earth in the open ferment or ferment

Daniel Horne: Close enough.

Mickael Wilson: Thank

Steven Clemens: heaven and God created great whales and everything living every living creature that moveth which the waters brought forth abundantly after their kind and every winged fowl after his kind and God saw that it was good

Daniel Horne: All right.

Steven Clemens: Do you want me to continue?

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, 22 to 20.

Daniel Horne: One more verse, I think.

Steven Clemens: And God blessed them saying, be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas and let fowls multiply in the earth. And the evening and morning were the fifth day.

Daniel Horne: Wow, we're on day five already time flies dude Like this last week.

Mickael Wilson: That's interesting. What is? That God blessed them saying, be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters and the seas and let birds multiply on the earth. He gave a command to these creatures. He commanded them. Yeah. I mean, he created them. Why did he specifically give them, he audibly, he said, this is your command.

Daniel Horne: Hmm. Hmm.

Mickael Wilson: So in terms of like the evolution thing, evolution gives this idea of programming. Like it's already this way or it develops into this. It behaves this way because it has to because it's whatever. Yeah, it's the best way they found but God...

Daniel Horne: or it's the best way they've found.

Mickael Wilson: throws literally all of that out. I do not remember this. I feel like this is the first time I'm ever reading this passage. Like this is crazy. He commands these creatures to be fruitful and multiply. That's wild. He didn't program them. He didn't program them. He commanded them after he created them.

Daniel Horne: And to be clear, that's the blessing, right? But it's a commanded blessing. Which is like, kinda epic. Only God can do that.

Mickael Wilson: It's a blessing. Yeah. He's like, hey, here is this blessing. Yeah.

Daniel Horne: Hey, you better have a good time. Or else.

Mickael Wilson: else.

Daniel Horne: Yeah.

Steven Clemens: You

Mickael Wilson: That's wild though. I have never looked at that and been like, he's commanding. That really does throw out the evolution because...

Daniel Horne: and one foul swoop.

Mickael Wilson: found. I knew about evolution.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, so I've explained this concept to both of you guys, think. Probably. Especially to you. The concept of looking back in time, ⁓ Wherever you look, whether it's literally you're looking at something or figuratively you're looking back in time, it's hard to focus. And so you end up with a cone of what you actually see, right?

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Horne: So my eyes, I don't know what the actual degrees I can actually see. I don't know. and you wrote down the wifi password so badly that I can't figure it out. Just a shout out for you. Um, so otherwise I would Google it, but I have no idea what you mean. I tried every combination. like, is that a Z or is that a two? Okay. Is that a F or is that a O or is that a zero?

Mickael Wilson: Wait, this is... ⁓ It's an F. It's an O.

Daniel Horne: I tried that. It didn't work. Maybe, your friend probably messed it up. You'll type it in. Okay. Maybe we'll get an actual answer here from Google, from, ⁓ uncle Google. I was going to say daddy Google, but, ⁓ yeah. We were looking at, ⁓ what is the actual, ⁓ like the grease that my eyes can see. Do you know that one at the top of your eye?

Mickael Wilson: No. folks.

Steven Clemens: What are we looking at?

Daniel Horne: or top your eye, top your head. ⁓

Steven Clemens: ⁓ So it being the first number is basically like the average or what your eyes should be at. The 20, which is basically 2020, is supposed to be like when you're...

Daniel Horne: I'm more so talking about like, you know how like you can see in your peripheral vision Like there's a certain like if you're looking straight that's like 180 degrees off to the side Yeah, or whatever it is, right? That's what I'm trying to figure out. It doesn't really matter though It's just a trivia question

Steven Clemens: I believe it's... I it's like...

Daniel Horne: Thank you, Michael.

Steven Clemens: I know my eyes are like... one. 140 something like that ⁓

Daniel Horne: Are you checking your peripheral? Michael's over here with his fingers right next to his eyes. So Google says the total horizontal angle of human vision is about 200 to 220 degrees with a vertical angle of about 135 to 150 degrees. So horizontal, we get a lot. Like 220 ish degrees, uh, up and down 135 to 150. Uh, anyways.

Mickael Wilson: Wouldn't that be just... Hmm.

Daniel Horne: Totally off topic, but that's a cone, right? It's a lopsided cone, but it's a cone of vision and, we can, ⁓ see more the further it is from where we are. ⁓ but if you look at that from the perspective of time backwards, that's, it doesn't work like a huge chunk of what you're seeing is hallucination. Like it's not.

Mickael Wilson: Right.

Daniel Horne: real because the actual starting point was back then. Like we're not talking about is creation real, is it not? Let's just pretend that it was either creation or the big bang. It might've been the giant spaghetti monster, but we don't know. So if we can agree to that, that means that there was a point in time where time started and space started ⁓ and it quite literally, you know.

Mickael Wilson: Right. Right.

Daniel Horne: time is at that point was a point and then it turned into an expanding ball or an expanding cone. ⁓ and because I'm thinking of it as a 2d, 2d plane, ⁓ of time, it just imagined like a point on a piece of paper and then two lines going out like a triangle. And that's our cone. Now, if we are on the far end of the cone and it's gotten real big, right? It's expanded like crazy. And we're looking backwards at that original point. What we're seeing backwards is where we start is that point, but we're looking backwards. so we've got, imagine you've got that original triangle, right on the page. And then we're over here on the opposite side of the page and we're looking back at that first point. And so our, our vision of the time crosses the initial lines.

Mickael Wilson: Right. Yeah.

Daniel Horne: of that first triangle. And so wherever our vision of the past cuts over the original lines of that first triangle, I hope I'm not losing anybody.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. All of that's off what we can't see.

Daniel Horne: it most likely it's wrong because there's no way we could see that. Right. And so it's a what I'm I guess it's really complicated way of saying this perspective and we don't have the right perspective.

Mickael Wilson: Cause we can't see at all. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, like, you know, again, I'll plug my book, but it's, it's just like with my book, you know, in, in order to know a hundred percent about one thing, molecule, an entire being or whatever, in order to know a hundred percent of it, you have to apply it to a hundred percent of everything else.

Daniel Horne: We can't see it.

Mickael Wilson: And if you don't apply it to a hundred percent of everything else, you don't know how it functions in all settings and against all things, against whatever. And I mean, so much of our lives is being applied to multiple different things over the course of our lives. You know, it's, it's age, it's, it's sickness, it's work, it's people, it's whatever, you know, we're being applied to so many different things and we're not even being applied to everything. So we, there's no way for us to a hundred percent know ourselves because we, can't apply ourselves to everything. You know, we're limited in the path that we're taking. ⁓ And yeah, so again, we only get so much from our perspective, from our life that, you know, we're missing.

Daniel Horne: So much. Yeah. Like you were talking about like, uh, experience in a way like that limits our vision. Like it takes it down from like a 2020 vision to like a, what is it Steven? Like the higher the number gets the worst. Yeah. Yeah. So it brings like you from like a 2020 to like a 40 10. So you're like, I can't see anything already because my experience is so limited, but now I'm looking backwards and I can't even see.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah.

Daniel Horne: where everything started. I can't. Like it's impossible for me. ⁓

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Well, and like with our imaginations taking over memory, if we just think of it in terms of memory, like we're constantly rebuilding our memories because, know, like say if I have a bad experience with my sister or something, and then 10 years later I have an experience with her and it's bad, I'm gonna make that previous experience even worse. I'm gonna add to it. And I mean, that's not even taking into consideration age and whatever else. Like all the details just get so muddled. And I mean, that's just a natural effect that we have because of the fall, but yeah.

Daniel Horne: So bring it back. ⁓ I forget the exact reason I brought up that time. ⁓ But we are talking about the beginning here.

Mickael Wilson: And there's so we don't know. ⁓

Daniel Horne: ⁓ And I think that's really what it was. mean, we talked about in episode zero, like that the, the fact that we can imagine what happened, ⁓ is bold to say the least. It's in my mind, arrogant, ⁓ which, you know, we're good at that.

Mickael Wilson: No. Hmm. Yeah, we can have fun with it.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, just as humankind, we're good at being arrogant. And ⁓ it's especially arrogant when God of the universe gives us scripture that's been handed down verbally for I forget the exact number, but over a thousand years. Yeah. Like not really written down. And then there was a manuscript. the verbal time and then a manuscript post the verbal time and they were exactly the same. Word for word. Comma for comma.

Mickael Wilson: Hmm. I mean, definitely a hundred monkeys in a room.

Daniel Horne: for a like it was. Yeah, no, was the typewriter experiment. Yeah, it was. But that's so we've got ample evidence of the complexity of the earth and the complexity of God's imagination. And we're barely scratching the surface. And he gives us this book that has magical properties to it. If you just take a second glance at it for like.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. I'm experiencing the magic right now. Yeah

Daniel Horne: Yeah. Like just Google that. Like I challenge you to Google what I just asserted there. Don't trust me. Look it up. Was it true that people pass this on verbally alone or is there possible evidence that they did write it down? And it was just a secret, you know, like, is there a conspiracy there? Is there either way?

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Maybe.

Daniel Horne: If they did write it down, thousands of years and it hasn't changed.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. I mean, that can happen. Absolutely not.

Daniel Horne: You think so? Like so many individual human agendas throughout thousands of years.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, it's like playing telephone. It always comes out the other end exactly the same.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, what if there is a politician in Israel that was just like, well, I guess it wasn't Israel at time, right? No, it was. Yeah. ⁓ they're just like, you know what? This doesn't fit my agenda.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. I mean, wouldn't they? I mean, there was clear evidence of them hating God. Yeah. so many.

Daniel Horne: On every chance they can, they worship another God. Every chance. ⁓ And even the, you know, like the, even the good ones.

Mickael Wilson: like Solomon.

Daniel Horne: Yeah. so that's what I'm saying. It's like how flawed is humankind and look at the, the, the idea that humankind as flawed as it is, perfectly kept this, this book exactly the same for thousands of years.

Mickael Wilson: I mean, we're perfect beings, clearly, so.

Daniel Horne: I mean, it's little known fact that we were actually computers back in the day.

Mickael Wilson: We were actually...

Daniel Horne: And computers, technology, you can trust it.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah.

Steven Clemens: Now going into Matrix territory.

Mickael Wilson: Let's move on before we get into the Matrix. Oh gosh. We're two sections away.

Daniel Horne: Simulation theory, everybody. We're... And guess what guys, we are past an hour and a half I think.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, we are. This is good. This is good. This is good content. I mean, I was playing. think we were playing with the idea of doing three hours anyways.

Daniel Horne: 45 minutes. That's true. Here we are. You know, let's just do what we want. To be fair, we want to respect our listeners and a little, you know, not everybody has three hours to spend on a podcast.

Mickael Wilson: We're going to do what we want. but people divide it up between.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, no, you chunk it. Hour here.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, we don't care about them. I'm just kidding. Whoa, dude. Verse 24, speaking of respect, then God said, let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind, cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind. And it was so. God made the beasts of the earth after their kind and the cattle after their kind and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind. And God saw that it was good. And God said, let us make man in our image according to our likeness and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth. God created man in his own image and the image of God, created him male and female. created them. God blessed them. And God said to them, be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it. and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth. Then God said, Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth and every tree which has fruit yielding seed. It shall be food for you and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and everything that moves on the earth which has life I have given every

Daniel Horne: Nice emphasis, bro.

Mickael Wilson: What was I emphasizing? don't know. It's, it's, mean, we let us.

Daniel Horne: You know exactly what Then God said let us make man in our image after our likeness

Mickael Wilson: It's mean, it's fascinating that we don't I mean at this point in the Bible if this is our first time reading the Bible Who the heck is us? Who who's what is our image? What is our likeness? That's great

Daniel Horne: Yeah. Crazy. That is kind of crazy that a lot of Christians don't read this verse.

Steven Clemens: The book of Genesis.

Mickael Wilson: you

Steven Clemens: I don't know why it went to reading.

Daniel Horne: He's got a smoother voice than I got. The Book of Genesis.

Mickael Wilson: Well, it's interesting because if you continue like grammatically, then it says, God created man in his own image. After God says, let us make man in our image. And then it says, God created man in his own image.

Daniel Horne: What are you trying to get at? Like the Trinity or something?

Mickael Wilson: So, this is how, I mean, cat's out of the bag. The Trinity exists. Case closed.

Daniel Horne: Hahaha And it's in all of its modes right there.

Mickael Wilson: What? This podcast is over. We're hour and a in, too much heresy for me. I'm at capacity. I'm just kidding. Well, it's interesting because it says the spirit of God hovered over the deep. And then it refers to this us. So at this point we could say, okay, maybe the spirit of God is included in this us. know? Now if we go to John,

Daniel Horne: Okay.

Steven Clemens: you

Mickael Wilson: and, you know, we just skipped to John for whatever reason. ⁓ Then it's like, okay, so the Word of God, so the Word, God's verbal Word is in creation, so we have maybe three people. Maybe.

Daniel Horne: Yeah. Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: And I mean, that's, that's well, maybe we definitely do. But, but it's, it's just based off of what we have right here. We're really only seeing two in the language.

Daniel Horne: Maybe. What do mean?

Mickael Wilson: Arr-image.

Daniel Horne: God created man in his ⁓ image. ⁓ the image of God, created him. Male and female, he created ⁓ ⁓

Mickael Wilson: Yeah.

Daniel Horne: So what is that, just confusing?

Mickael Wilson: I mean it it makes you wonder okay, so we're one page in Maybe depending on what Bible you have we're one page in There are probably thousands of pages after this. Yeah and Masterfully what Stephen said in our first episode zero? We have no idea what's going on. This is just the very beginning and I mean, we're at the very beginning of the story and it is, it it is. What people will do, especially if they're reading the Bible, they've been alive for a specific amount of time. Maybe they've experienced the church, maybe they've gone to church, maybe they've heard sermons, maybe they've read excerpts or read books or whatever. They're going to read this and they have presuppositions. They're like, oh, I know. based off of what I've experienced, off of what I've read, everything that I've heard, everything, everything, all of that, that has to be enough in order for me to say that maybe this is modalism, maybe there are multiple gods, maybe there's any number of different things happening here.

Daniel Horne: Maybe this is at a point in evolution where God is saying, let's make these monkeys in my image now. Yeah. Like they're far enough along. they're kind of getting smart. Like they've been living in caves now. Sure. Like there were. Yeah, billions. And he says, you know what? Enough's enough. Like, let's stop the dying. I'm going to create a garden.

Mickael Wilson: This is millions of years. Billions. Yeah. ⁓

Daniel Horne: You can tell I'm really like four. I'm a proponent

Mickael Wilson: I feel it. feel the love. ⁓

Daniel Horne: Yeah. So as you were saying that though, I remember, that we're supposed to be reading this from the perspective of the original audience, right? Sure. So the original audience, who was that? Cause we discussed last time this has been written by Moses. So the original audience is the Israelites. Okay. So I'm an Israelite.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓

Daniel Horne: I'm a whiny Israelite, right? I don't know what kind of accent I just picked up right there, but It was not racist. It was, I don't know, UK or something? don't know. Sure. I'm a whiny- Okay.

Mickael Wilson: those risks. It was really, you should have gotten with country. You just offended our entire staff person that is listening to our podcast from UCAF person.

Daniel Horne: entire country. Sorry half person, I really wish you had legs. ⁓ Hey it's cool I have a friend. ⁓ No I legit know someone who doesn't have legs. And he hates it when people make that joke so. ⁓

Mickael Wilson: He's blind, but it's the same thing. Okay. Love you buddy.

Daniel Horne: So I'm an Israelite. I love the wine. I love wine. ⁓ yeah. is delicious by the way. I don't know why we haven't done that before. Anyways.

Mickael Wilson: We have three bottles right now. we hate ourselves. Well, because we have Easy Tiger. Easy Tiger?

Daniel Horne: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Very nice local bar. It's got a pool table. Yeah. Nice people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Michael's number is 602-255. ⁓

Mickael Wilson: Nice people. Jazz. Every other Wednesday. Texas. What did I do? You're gonna adopt yourself? We're actually in the Sahara Desert. Anyways, you were saying?

Daniel Horne: As an Israelite in the desert wandering or even before then I don't know exactly when Moses wrote this so let's just say like Wandering sure right. Let's say I'm wandering or I'm a descendant of the Wanderers. I'm in the land that like the promised land ⁓ What's Let's see here. I've grown up under the law ⁓ And my dad takes me to the river, points to the stones, and he says, see those stones, son? That's when we crossed the river into the promised land. And this is like the story behind it. Like that's our God. He brought us out of the land of Egypt. ⁓ So you're in that like first or second generation after crossing the promised land. So good times. ⁓ At that point, if I'm that kid and I've grown up, How would I perceive this first chapter?

Mickael Wilson: I mean you've heard about Yahweh for sure because Yahweh led the people, the pillar of fire to the promised land. ⁓ He dropped manna. He, you you've heard about Abraham.

Daniel Horne: Yeah. Yeah. At this point you're just used to crazy stories.

Mickael Wilson: Well yeah, you've heard about these key figures. ⁓

Daniel Horne: You've heard the Red Sea? You've heard how the Red Sea swallowed up an entire army? It's just like nothing compared to the pillar of fire and cloud.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. You've heard of Well, and you've probably heard about Noah in the Ark, because that's huge. So you know about the presence of Yahweh and you're probably fearful to some degree, because where you also heard about all these great things, you also heard how all these people wanted to go back to Egypt because We've been in the desert. We've been in the wilderness. We don't want to be out here. And God is saying, no, ⁓ you know, keep going. Or Moses is trying to convince the people to keep going, keep going. Like in their minds, I almost feel like, well, I'm almost thinking like they're thinking that, ⁓ God is going to kill us. God is dragging us through the desert.

Daniel Horne: I mean that brings up the point of like the ground splitting open and swallowing like a huge portion of Israel. That's insane. It's just another fireside story.

Mickael Wilson: Well, and you know, we know that if we didn't put the blood of the lambs on our doorframe, we wouldn't have escaped. Or like, our firstborn. Dead. Yeah.

Daniel Horne: of escape. You wouldn't be here Billy.

Mickael Wilson: ⁓ So it's a reverence, but I think it's a fearful reverence. Because you've only heard about it for some of them. Well, actually all of them. All of them at this point in the promised land. They've only heard about it because the other generation died. God specifically said, I'm going to wait until the next generation and then that generation can enter the promised land.

Daniel Horne: Billy Joe. But your grandpa was like ⁓ back in Nam. Yeah. He fought in World War II. He fought with Joshua ⁓ and he slaughtered like all the nations and everything, right? Yeah. Killed most of the Canaanites. And that's like one of the stories that they don't tell too often. Right. Right. The one where they got tricked right away. ⁓

Mickael Wilson: Yeah.

Daniel Horne: So it's almost as if I'm this is real life that's heard of the greatness of God and sees how the previous two generations, revere him. And I know that it's real. ⁓ and that I should sort of shake him up boots. Like you were saying, got to listen to this. Yeah. And so you got to take it seriously. ⁓ this is something that will affect your life.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah.

Daniel Horne: Like it's not a question of like, this? It will. Yeah. And it might only affect you as a member of the nation. That's what I would think. Cause you think of all the ⁓ stories and a lot of them are just about like main characters and stuff. So it would make me think like, ⁓ man, I really don't want to be the part of the crowd that just goes along with.

Mickael Wilson: Well, and I think...

Daniel Horne: you know, whatever is popular. I don't want to be the ones that were scared to go into the promised land and caused an entire generation to die out before they had another chance. I don't want to be them. I don't want to be the ones who started worshiping a golden idol while Moses was calm. I don't want to be Aaron. Let that happen. And like barely put up a fight. But most likely I'm not going to be. I'm going to be part of the crowd and I just don't want to be on the side of the crowd where I get swallowed into the earth.

Mickael Wilson: left. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Daniel Horne: Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: I think,

Daniel Horne: So from that perspective, I read this and I see the goodness of God. I see the other side of like, I'm not just another person part of the crowd. ⁓ I see that God's created the earth in such a complex way that he's made it for everybody.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah.

Daniel Horne: and the way he pays attention to the details ⁓ proves that. That's what I'm thinking.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Horne: What you think?

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, I mean, I would agree with you. It's not, Nothing in here... I mean, I've read it so many times and I think I'm definitely realizing how...

Steven Clemens: Thanks

Mickael Wilson: simplistic I looked at.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, very surface level.

Mickael Wilson: And I'm looking at it now and I'm like, this isn't, there's a reason why we're still studying this. There's a reason why we're looking at this right now with fresh eyes as though we've never grown up in the church, as though we haven't heard any number of sermons, including this, as though we haven't heard it read any, like, mean, verses or chapters one through three are probably some of the most quoted in all of church history. Cause you can't get away from it. Cause it's so, easy to think about the creation of the earth and it's so fascinating and we're still looking at it like

Daniel Horne: Yeah. So foreign to us. Like we are beings that know time, no existence, no things, no physical. ⁓ In a way we know spiritual, but not in an intimate way.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Well, and God created us in a way that we desire to create. so creating this, I mean, naturally our minds want to wrap our heads around it, but it's like, how do you wrap your head around speaking in a concept that exists?

Daniel Horne: Hmm. Yeah

Mickael Wilson: Like, I mean, maybe we can kind of like I said last time, or I say in my book, like we give things a name and we kind of equate that to being us inventing a concept, but nothing is new under the sun. So it's like, we're not really inventing anything. We're just rebranding. ⁓

Daniel Horne: Yeah, we named something and the guy's just like, duh man.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. I think we should try and wrap this.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, let's wrap it up. think we're about to hit two hours.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, but I just want to end it with verse 28, where ⁓ it's the same thing that was said to the sea creatures and such, but it says,

Daniel Horne: This is us.

Mickael Wilson: And rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth. Manit says this about the plants and everything. ⁓

Daniel Horne: is like summarizing to them because they weren't there.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. And it's, mean, this is, this is our first command. This is the first command. This is the first, like, this is why you're here.

Daniel Horne: And in verse 31, it says, God saw everything that he had made and behold, it was very good. It was the first time he said that.

Mickael Wilson: was very good. Yeah. And it probably literally said in Hebrew, good, good. Because, because I don't, I don't know if they had, um, was it?

Daniel Horne: You think? That was just the form of emphasis that they used. And we use it. Cool, cool.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah Yeah Cool cool ⁓ But I definitely think that Just going back to you know, what did the original audience think about this? I think they read that and they're like that's intense And we failed at that Yeah, I mean Because we don't do what God wants us to do

Daniel Horne: Awesome. Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: We go against this. We say we don't want to you know, or Maybe some people are like be fruitful and fill the earth gross. What if I don't want to fill here? What if I you know, and then subdue it that sounds like hard work ⁓ yeah and rule over the fish and over the birds and over every living thing. Yeah

Daniel Horne: Steven's like, I'm ⁓

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, it's like, it's hard. Even for, I mean, it's hard for us to rub our heads around. But God, God, well, God commands us everything that he created in six days, the entire universe, basically, or the entire earth. ⁓

Daniel Horne: It's your domain though.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. And it's a command. It's not, he's not asking. He's not saying, Hey, I'm suggesting, but it's also marked as a blessing. Like you pointed out with, with the other one. I did notice that I didn't say anything like that for the land creatures. Maybe they just aren't as nice as the birds in the Dakota.

Daniel Horne: that birds. You hear that, Dakota.

Mickael Wilson: Get Dax bro. I'm Anyways, probably move on I'm thinking because it's been two hours Maybe

Daniel Horne: Cut us the dog here. Yeah, no, I think we should. Should we move on to the Duh?

Mickael Wilson: to the laws. I was gonna say the decay.

Daniel Horne: This is the intermission, I guess. Right.

Mickael Wilson: intermission.

Daniel Horne: Because we have perfume.

Mickael Wilson: ⁓ okay, interesting. This is the palette cleanser. Okay. Well, I was gonna say maybe we could kind of do what we did last time. Yeah, sure. And mix them.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, I like that. So do you want to talk like, just like, Hey, that was your week. me something about it. That's what we talk about originally. Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: Maybe we just have two sections. Either way, we're going to talk about ourselves. So, but maybe, maybe starting off, kind of try to focus more on talking about who we are.

Daniel Horne: So what do you wanna talk about? ⁓ sure. we, I mean... But you haven't listened to episode zero, get with it.

Mickael Wilson: You're really confused about that cold open. ⁓

Daniel Horne: Yeah, for real.

Mickael Wilson: So actually, let us actually start with the, ⁓ I want to do that philosophy question. Sure. Because what we just went, because of what we just went over, think it's ⁓ philosophical. So the, in the second portion of this, we call it decay. ⁓ And it is supposed to be, you know, just this, ⁓

Daniel Horne: philosophical.

Mickael Wilson: What is it? It's not like it is bad or it is ugly or dying or whatever, but it is a look at really anything and everything other than God in a sense. Because what we just did is we went over the Bible, which is the most important, most beautiful thing that we can look at.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, except for Christ and God. So it's kind of hard to explain. I explained this like a month ago and then it's been hard to like reiterate that since then.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. But I think I like that. I think it got us reiterating it every single time because it is. I mean, I think we're going to. Yeah, because go for it.

Daniel Horne: We should try to re-explain everything. ⁓ If I give it a shot? Okay. So I really think, um, perfume decay is just, um, it doesn't, you don't have to read into it too much. Um, just like, uh, just like you don't like, what is that perfume made of? You know, like you just smell it. It smells nice. And, uh, I mean, decay is like gross and you notice it immediately and it does not improve your day. Um, so.

Mickael Wilson: All

Daniel Horne: Another way of looking at it is, ⁓ like you were going down the road of like, God's word is a perfume. ⁓ It brings life to the dead world or the dying world. ⁓ It makes the decay bearable. ⁓ And so this isn't a celebration of the decay itself.

Mickael Wilson: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Daniel Horne: That's not what I'm saying at all. That's not what we're saying. ⁓ it's just a recognition of how life really is. Like life kind of sucks sometimes. That's not by design. ⁓ that's yeah, we just read like God made it very good. ⁓ he made it good. And then as soon as you and I showed up, he's like, dude, ⁓

Mickael Wilson: No. Yeah, as we just read. Yeah.

Daniel Horne: Heck yeah. This is good. Right. So I guess that's, that's the idea here is a perfume decay. Like, ⁓ God made the world as a pleasant perfume. ⁓ and then we caused it to fall into a state of decay and that's very sad. one. ⁓

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Horne: but it's also something we should not ignore.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, well, it's something that we have to live in the reality.

Daniel Horne: Yeah. And that's, that's a, a gross reality. hate that reality, but it's not something that I should ignore. Like you see the Pharisees doing that. ⁓ they, I said in episode zero, like they, they're hypocrites and they walk around like they're, I watched tombs, but really they have dead bodies and they're, they're, they're back from this. Right? Like it's just, Jesus calls that disgusting.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah.

Daniel Horne: Like it's the worst of the worst. It's like the, taking something that's horrifyingly gross and making it look, like beautiful. Yeah. Beautiful. Like, ⁓ like say you buy a piece of art and it turns out to not only be a counterfeit, but it turns out to be something that like, ⁓ it's, it's like, ⁓ something that's just like it.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah.

Daniel Horne: It's not only you wasted your money on this. It's like an insult to you. Right. ⁓ Couldn't think of a better analogy. But.

Mickael Wilson: No, that's good.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, I mean, we got to recognize that as a Christian, we're, we still have that deadness to us.

Mickael Wilson: Well, we live in a dead body. Gang body.

Daniel Horne: Like, though, no, is legit. Like as we live, we die. And it's a very slow process and a painful process and a humbling process. and, what I've seen is with like, usually the older you get, ⁓ as a Christian, the tighter you cling to that Bible. Cause it's, it's what is sweet in life.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Horne: And so that's really the idea behind perfume decay in my estimate.

Mickael Wilson: I think it's one of those things where it's a unintended Checking device for us as podcasters Yeah, well because it's it's one of those things where it's like We we came up with the concept we came up with a name and we're like, ⁓ that's a cool band name but but but at the same time we're like there's there's a lot of depth to the name ⁓

Daniel Horne: You and me.

Mickael Wilson: You know and and and I mean just viewing the word of god as a perfume Yeah on our lives and then and then viewing the rest of it. I mean because I feel like maybe this isn't maybe maybe i'm just speaking for myself, but like when I think about the decay portion i'm like That feels gross like I don't necessarily feel good about that because because that includes That metal portion where we're talking about ourselves

Daniel Horne: Yeah

Mickael Wilson: ⁓ And it's like I almost feel bad about it, but it's like we came up with the name you know, but it but it's but it was intentional because There's an we don't want to say that anything is more beautiful. Anything is more worth it than the Word of God But also we're not trying to say that There's nothing else worth talking about

Daniel Horne: Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: Because there is, because we have all of life that we experience, which is not devoid of this perfume, but when we get further away from our focus on God, it is, and the way I try to put it, it's not a decay necessarily. ⁓ at least in my own articulation of anything other than the perfume, right? It's just getting further and further with it. It's the smell that's decaying. It's the aroma that is not ⁓ whatever, but still, you know, the thoughts of a decaying body comes up and we...

Daniel Horne: Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: I mean when we think of it conceptually like, you know, we're getting further away from the from Talking about the Bible in a sense. So it is that kind of decay So it's it's all it's I mean, it's everything everything that we I think kind of put to it It really gets the point of cross because one were the creators and two it's just it's something that we can constantly and I think we should Yeah, and and remember reiterate in what? Yeah, yeah so

Daniel Horne: clean meaning from. And I really think it provides that middle ground that people really need. I really need, um, where I'm a Christian, but I also, suck and there's room for that. Um,

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. We're not perfect human beings. Sorry. We're not trying to be either right now.

Daniel Horne: Yes. And just to be very real with everybody, ⁓ I just came out as a season of life where I was down and out for like a year or two. And there was points where I was so mad at God and I did not want to believe he was real. And I didn't read my Bible. I didn't pray. I didn't do anything. ⁓ And that's There's room for that. Like it doesn't mean. That I'm right in what I did. It just means that I am what I am. I'm a sinner. Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. You're living your life. I mean, so I was at this men's group today. ⁓ And this guy just... laid it all out. His whole is like just everything that he's going through. And he cried. was vulnerable about it. It was beautiful. It was impactful. What?

Daniel Horne: Isn't that weird? His worst moment and you just said it was beautiful.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, well, yeah, because I mean.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, perfume to go.

Mickael Wilson: perfume yeah yeah because he's laying out all this awfulness but at the same time he came to that group yeah if you want to stay in your crap don't go to a group like that because these people are trying to point you towards Jesus yeah Jesus is sitting with you in the midst of your crap and he's like hey You know, we can sit here. We can, we can absolutely sit here. But also, if you take my hand, we're gonna keep going. And it's gonna suck and your back is probably gonna hurt, your legs aren't gonna wanna move anymore, you're gonna freeze, you're gonna sweat to death, you're gonna work harder than ever, it's gonna suck, but I'm literally right here. You might sprint backwards. You might be back.

Daniel Horne: You might sprint backwards to it. Right before that, might have been complaining about your feet.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. But, you know, he's, he's, talking about all this and, you know, he lands on. like. I'm There's a reason why I'm here. He's like, I don't necessarily know what it is, but there's a reason. Yeah. And it's not like, he's like, it sucks. Like I don't want to do whatever. No, he didn't. Well, he doesn't want to, he doesn't want to do the things that, you know, he's being tasked with doing with the things that he's realizing because he's like,

Daniel Horne: That's kind of what I landed on too. it.

Mickael Wilson: I'd rather just sit in my crap and cry or or or fight whoever you know is against me. I don't want to deal with this. I want to fight. I want to throw my fit. I want to punch who I want to punch. I want to blow up what I want to blow up and I want to be vindicated by. Oh, yeah. I want to gleam from that what I want to gleam from it. I'm not going to. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it's and it's

Daniel Horne: I'm not saying I didn't.

Mickael Wilson: It really... That's light. And...

Daniel Horne: Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: I mean, if that isn't what we're trying to show off or trying to portray.

Daniel Horne: Like ⁓ it's okay, but it's not okay. Yeah, It's like it's it's such a delicate middle ground. Yeah, where if you try to look at it, it sort of falls apart Yeah, I mean

Mickael Wilson: Well, it- Well, and that's why we keep reassessing it and keep holding accountable. Because if I didn't have you correcting some of the things that sound probably really radical, then you know, or the same way. ⁓ And same thing with Stephen. we didn't keep each other in check, then you know. ⁓ And so that brings us, I think that's a perfect segue into our philosophical question. Why?

Daniel Horne: Alright. be in some trouble.

Mickael Wilson: Is there something good instead of nothing?

Daniel Horne: Yeah, good question. Why is there something rather than nothing? Isn't that just like the,

Mickael Wilson: Because I've already been speaking. Okay, so I'm writing in my book, right? Mm-hmm See my published works when it's ⁓ The creation or the the infinite nature of all of creation that's what it's called. Hmm. So why is there something instead of nothing? My claim in the book so far is And this is just a throwaway question that I kind of threw in there in like parentheses. ⁓ But the claim that I've come up with is all of creation is for relationships.

Daniel Horne: Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: so that we can continue communicating and creating more relationships.

Steven Clemens: you

Daniel Horne: Okay, so all of creation is for relationships so that we can. I think I'm gonna butcher it, but maybe I get the right idea. So all of creation is for relationships so that we can create new relationships to perpetuate relationships. Wow.

Mickael Wilson: Because the ⁓ vehicle at which relationships travel or grow or change or whatever is communication.

Daniel Horne: ⁓ So why couldn't God have created a purely spiritual realm? Because they could still have communication. They could still have relationship.

Mickael Wilson: who says that this isn't a purely spiritual realm.

Daniel Horne: Because we're drinking wine.

Mickael Wilson: And this isn't spiritual?

Daniel Horne: No, it's physical.

Mickael Wilson: What if it's the spiritual just wrapped in?

Daniel Horne: physical. It's saying, what if there's triangles inside of squares? There. Yeah. So we do have a soul. We are spiritual beings. The consequence of that is that we're going to live forever in one way or another. Whether that's hell or heaven.

Mickael Wilson: There are. There you go. Boom.

Daniel Horne: and there is also the physical and the physical is not bad inherently. in fact, God created all of it. And so it's good. Like not giving permission. But not giving permission to sin. Right. Right. ⁓ as Paul says, like,

Mickael Wilson: Unless you're a gnostic. Heh, yeah.

Daniel Horne: All things being equal is to kind of say like, the physical is good. Like this wine, I've been going back to the same bottle and it's so good.

Mickael Wilson: Right. It's so good. Which one is it? Yeah, I figured It's the least least

Daniel Horne: It's this, ⁓ Yeah, it's... Celerosa. wine of the wines. So we got some on accident. got three wines and there was. Yeah, we just fell into a sewer and came out with three wines on accident. No, we got three wines and they were all sweet. And I didn't realize it. Like I picked up the Moscato, but the other two, I had no idea they were sweet. It turns out we could have read the label.

Mickael Wilson: ⁓ Nah, no clue. One of them. The other ones don't really seem to have a sweetness scale, but that's okay.

Daniel Horne: Well, I knew the Moscato was sweet. Yeah, it's just part of its nature.

Mickael Wilson: Right.

Daniel Horne: back to the nature of reality and physicality. physical things are good. And the reason I know that is because God just told

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. So here's a question because we are... ⁓ Can we provide an answer to this that isn't spiritual for a second?

Daniel Horne: that isn't spiritual? To this main question, why is there something rather than nothing?

Mickael Wilson: Yeah, that isn't tied to... Yeah. So the answer that I gave was more on the relational side of things. Do you think that there may be something?

Daniel Horne: relational. So why is there something rather than nothing? ⁓ that makes me think of animals. Like, depending on what you believe, ⁓ you don't think animals are gonna, they have souls, they have spirits and they, like in whatever that, whatever that means, the outcome is those animals don't go to heaven.

Mickael Wilson: Okay.

Daniel Horne: They're still physical. They're still a creation. Like they're still very complex. ⁓ but their entire purpose is not nothing. Their purpose is to glorify God and to carry out his commands. And that can be in either the physical realm or the spiritual realm. Cause we see angels,

Mickael Wilson: Thank

Daniel Horne: At one point it had some sort of free will because we see part of the angels fall and become demons and Satan and everything. ⁓ But there's also ⁓ the angels that we think of babies. It's not real. ⁓ Like those beings, they exist on a more self-aware, I guess, plane, right? ⁓ But they still only exist to glorify God, in a way we do too, but in a different way, which is why it's so fascinating ⁓ to the angels to observe. ⁓

Mickael Wilson: Mm-hmm.

Daniel Horne: But, I mean, why do animals exist at all? To glorify God. Like when I see an animal and it's...

Mickael Wilson: Hmm.

Daniel Horne: Like, it's flying south and no one's ever told it to do that before. It just knows. What the heck, How?

Mickael Wilson: No.

Steven Clemens: Well, isn't it usually a learn trait though?

Daniel Horne: You mean pass down? Yeah

Steven Clemens: Because there's the theory of genetic knowledge and passed down knowledge.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, like epigenetic.

Steven Clemens: Yeah, yeah like dragonflies they Won't ever reach their destination like one in like one lifetime Like takes three or four

Daniel Horne: Huh. So they migrate, but it takes three or four generations to migrate from point A to point B. Yeah. That's insane. I didn't know that. Did you know that? Wow.

Mickael Wilson: I mean, I know there's a lot of insects that they'll migrate and they'll just keep well, I mean like flies they yeah, they live Few hours ⁓ like 24 hours something like that I don't know

Daniel Horne: me flies I think.

Steven Clemens: Mayflies live less than an hour.

Daniel Horne: Less than an hour? believe so. That's crazy. Everything is in slow motion for them.

Steven Clemens: Or wouldn't it be...

Mickael Wilson: Like, we're moving in motion now? I just imagine a YouTube video or whatever, it's probably AI generated. you just see a fly come out of its egg. like, I gotta eat! An hour later, bleh.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, we'd be living like they see just giants ⁓ Tell my children I love them. ⁓

Mickael Wilson: Little Johnny, how long you been here? ⁓ about a minute, Paul.

Daniel Horne: I was such an idiot in my twenties.

Mickael Wilson: Wasn't that like ten minutes ago?

Daniel Horne: All back in the twos. The two minute. ⁓ goodness gracious. But yeah, I mean, why is there something rather than nothing? And it's, mean, apart from God, I don't have an answer. But it's to glorify God.

Mickael Wilson: Uhhh... Well, I think it's interesting because it's like... You can't. I mean, what I always end up at is like, why does it matter? because at the end of the day... There is something. And not nothing. I mean that's not sufficient for a lot of people. And that's, I think that's fine.

Daniel Horne: Yeah. ⁓

Mickael Wilson: I think what a lot of these philosophical questions are going to bring us to is God, but it's also always going to bring us to what's the purpose of this question? Because Is is you knowing? The answer yeah, is it gonna change anything for you? Is it gonna are you gonna be able to apply that information and live a better life?

Daniel Horne: Yeah, you heard it here first folks. How to shut up your two-year-old. When they ask you why dad, why is this guy blue? doesn't matter! Son, why do you want to know?

Mickael Wilson: you Is it gonna help you eat your food?

Daniel Horne: I just want to know why. Dad, shut up. You're being annoying. See? ⁓ Imagine a two-year-old saying that.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah But really it's... Dude. But it's this thing of like... A lot of people, most people are just, they're gonna go to their job. They're gonna go, they're gonna take care of their kid, they're gonna make the food, they're gonna sit on the couch, watch TV, whatever. They're gonna do whatever they're gonna do and the answer to this question is not going to sway them one way or another from that. Maybe the question about purpose, is there a purpose or what is your purpose or whatever, maybe that. But a question like this, it's like, you're,

Daniel Horne: What does it matter?

Mickael Wilson: Like if it, maybe if it leads you towards that next question of like, okay, there's something because there's not nothing or whatever. Like maybe if it leads you to an idea of, maybe there's a God, then that's, that's worth it. But what is it? You know, I think, I think this. should be answered with a question of why. Why are you asking this? Are you asking it because it's gonna take you somewhere or you think it could take you somewhere or whatever? Are you asking it because you just wanna be annoying? You know, you just wanna, I think the way I put it in my book is like... Are you just adding on more junk to the void? Because so often I think our hearts and our minds end up being black holes that we just throw all this information into and we never do anything with it. And it's just going to the black hole. It's just going to the void.

Daniel Horne: Yeah. ⁓ I think someone who would naturally ask this question would probably be looking for meaning of sorts. ⁓ but if I were to ask this question, I would already know that I'm a bit more than something. ⁓ and how do I know that? Same way that you answered like this question. I know that because I'm me and I know I'm more than something.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah.

Daniel Horne: At least a little more. Because I'm experiencing me in a way that no one else is. Right? ⁓

Mickael Wilson: Well, and I mean, going back to creation, it's like, there's, we have a purpose and.

Daniel Horne: is to go out there and name the giraffes, the whales, disgusting vegetables that shouldn't be on plates. ⁓

Steven Clemens: you

Mickael Wilson: We have well it's it's I almost look at it as like we all have different abilities of subduing the earth ⁓ And the more that he man creates the more that there is in ways to subdue yeah in a sense because Though Yeah

Daniel Horne: Yeah. so odd. It's the one job that like the more you do, the more you have to do. ⁓ my God. He's like, ⁓ you conquered the whole earth? Well, welcome to the universe.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Seriously. That's the way it is in anime. It's like, ⁓ we've defeated the seven seas. Now the aliens are here.

Daniel Horne: Like how could it get any crazier? Yeah ⁓

Mickael Wilson: And then next thing you know, maybe we won't find out, but next thing you know, there's other dimensions. That'd be crazy. ⁓

Daniel Horne: spaghetti monster is real. But it's not a god. It's like the Levi.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. I feel like we answered this question.

Daniel Horne: Very quickly. I'm impressed. my gosh. Shut up, Michael.

Mickael Wilson: 70.

Daniel Horne: No, you're good. Steven, you got anything? Nope. You said no? Nope. We're just gonna sit here until you have something. Why? Just cuz.

Steven Clemens: Bye.

Mickael Wilson: Steven is a...

Steven Clemens: I don't have something. I have nothing.

Daniel Horne: ⁓ that's for that. Dang. All right. I'll give you that one. I like even though it wasn't

Mickael Wilson: You're a winner in my heart.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, I'm surprised you saw that one. That was pretty good.

Mickael Wilson: Dude, that's a great opportunity. What

Daniel Horne: What else should we talk about? Should we wrap it up?

Mickael Wilson: I just realized that I didn't write out an outro. I only wrote out an intro. Yeah, I'm gonna wing the head. Be blessed and multiply.

Daniel Horne: ⁓ you did not. You wanna wing it? Blessed. Yeah, beep less than multiply like the fouls

Mickael Wilson: I think it'd be interesting if we just pulled from the episode maybe some kind of like overarching lesson Maybe or maybe just from the first section the perfume section ⁓

Daniel Horne: Sure. Yeah. Okay. Should we put that burden on Stephen Schwartz? No.

Mickael Wilson: That's why well, I mean I think You know, I think it's important for us to look To continue to look at the Bible with fresh eyes continue to look at the world with fresh eyes Because I mean seriously, I'm looking at this today. I'm astounded

Daniel Horne: Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: because I've read it so many times, because I've heard it so many times, because I've had it explained so many times, because I've read an explanation of it so many times, and I'm like, there couldn't be anything new in there. And we haven't even gone down to the Hebrew. Like, I swear, if we went down to the Hebrew, we would be... mostly because we don't know Hebrew, but like, and we don't understand the grammar and everything, but like... looking at the world with fresh eyes,

Daniel Horne: The campus, yeah. Mostly because I don't know.

Mickael Wilson: should grow you closer to that. And if it doesn't, you're doing something wrong. There's something, there's something missing. Yeah.

Daniel Horne: Yeah. You don't quite see it yet. It's almost like you have to sit and just like look at it like it's a piece of art.

Steven Clemens: Like I've personally, so the Bible that I use off my phone, as you guys heard, can read to me. Anyways, I've done this once already. I've gone over to the park, it's near my house, and I've just sat on the top of a hill on the bench and just had it read to me.

Daniel Horne: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mickael Wilson: You just...

Steven Clemens: look over and you kind of just think to yourself like why do we need grass

Daniel Horne: Why the gra- Farrotosis. Duh. I get your point though.

Steven Clemens: Like

Mickael Wilson: though.

Steven Clemens: Why couldn't the grass multiply on its own? Why does it have to have seeds? And it's just odd in every way.

Mickael Wilson: Hmm.

Daniel Horne: Yeah. Like why insects? ⁓

Mickael Wilson: Okay. You bring up a really good point. There's another way we can look at our philosophical question. Why is there something instead of nothing? Why is there seeds instead of something else? Or instead of nothing? Why can't it not just be grass? Multiplying grass, right?

Daniel Horne: for you. That's just how evolution made it. I ⁓

Mickael Wilson: Yikes. Wait a second. What are we saying here? ⁓ but that's, that's interesting. Cause without that would, would we have as much intricacy and as much wonder?

Daniel Horne: see where you're going with this. That makes sense. You see where he's going?

Steven Clemens: A little bit, yeah. think another question I would have is just like, if you were to take away something from everything.

Daniel Horne: What a question! Wow! Snaps to Stephen! Holy cow dude! Coming out hot! Goodness gracious!

Mickael Wilson: And if we look at like I mean whether or not it's actually real because it has to do with time travel ⁓ but the butterfly effect Which like the idea of if you take one butterfly

Daniel Horne: Okay. Mm-hmm. And you pluck the wing off.

Mickael Wilson: and you just leave it.

Daniel Horne: I don't think that was the original.

Mickael Wilson: No, but if you kill one butterfly and it changes the entire course of time, if you were to take one thing from whatever, one molecule, whatever it is, it wouldn't be the same. mean, you know, we think about the fine tuning ⁓ theory. If the earth was one anything, point zero zero zero zero one measurement closer to the earth, would cease. To To the sun, mean, it would be destroyed. Or if anything was moved in any other direction, or was any temperature different or whatever, it would just be annihilated, right?

Steven Clemens: Wouldn't it's, ⁓ I I heard something about that. He would be, earth would be similar to like Venus or something like that just because of the greenhouse gas.

Mickael Wilson: Well, and it's so it's almost like the question is without something there would be nothing. But it's more like specifically without this or without one one.

Daniel Horne: something. It's a perfect system.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Bringing it back. Full circle. God made everything for a purpose. So we wouldn't have reality the way that God intended if there was, if anything was different.

Daniel Horne: Mm-hmm.

Mickael Wilson: So we have something instead of nothing for a higher intention that is really perfection.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, we talked about that last time. How there's a beauty, a certain beauty in perfection.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. Yeah, because if we take sin out of the equation, I mean if we look at just Genesis 1, it's perfect. It's very good. With man present. Subduing the earth. That's crazy.

Daniel Horne: Yeah.

Mickael Wilson: We just made a podcast.

Daniel Horne: Yeah, did. ⁓ I'm not sure if it's a good podcast.

Mickael Wilson: I think it's I think I think we killed it the fact that we brought it back full circle without even trying that's

Daniel Horne: Before we let everybody go, I want to look up that. Yeah, fine tuning. Let's see here. So I'm asking GPT, which I'll double check it. What's the range of distance? I don't know how to word this right. What's the range of distance that the Earth can get closer or further from the Sun? I'm going to say without killing everyone.

Mickael Wilson: fine-tuning.

Steven Clemens: ⁓ it's the distance. ⁓

Daniel Horne: Goalie lockdown. Yep. Yeah. Yep, but I want to be like real specific. I don't want GPT

Steven Clemens: What is the closest distance in the Goldilocks zone?

Daniel Horne: ⁓ yeah. What is... It's a hard thing to phrase, right? I know. I asked it but it's twiddling its thumbs right now. ⁓ the Wi-Fi is down. Dang it. I guess we'll answer that question at the top of the next show.

Mickael Wilson: you Did you ask it? Boo. ⁓ man, almost as if it was meant to be. At beginning of every episode, maybe we'll have something that goes wrong. Cool. That's funny.

Daniel Horne: Beginning. So yeah, don't Google that, wait for us. There's still no wifi. We'll get on top of that next week.

Mickael Wilson: Yeah. As far as you know, there's no... Well, this has been Perfumed DK. A long, long episode.

Daniel Horne: with Daniel, with Steven, and we have a fourth chair here for maybe someone, yeah, he's taking the wheel. But maybe someone will join us in the next episode. Who knows? You'll have to tune in and see. And maybe, maybe we'll have our stuff together so well the next episode we record. Maybe we'll have t-shirts and toe socks.

Mickael Wilson: We'll have video, stream, dude, maybe. Okay. I knew he was gonna say it at some point. Anyways, this has been a great episode. Let's move on before he says anything more about the toe socks.

Daniel Horne: You Grandma. Inside jokes. ⁓ gosh. Had to be there.

Mickael Wilson: Yep, had to. It's a good thing you won't be there. This has been Perfume Decay. We appreciate anybody that has listened this far. We're what? Two and a half hours in.

Daniel Horne: 230.

Mickael Wilson: We hope and we pray that this is actually been edifying. This has been more much more serious than the previous one. You think so? Yeah. Okay. Because we got into the weeds about about all the creation stuff. and you know, I mean, it's been edifying for us for sure. mean, we, it's, it's a lot of speculation, but it's, it's speculation that

Daniel Horne: Yeah. about the Bible, yeah.

Mickael Wilson: hopefully is bringing us closer to God. I think, because we're not 100 % on any of it. have no clue. But ultimately it has harbored greater awe and wonder in the God of creation. ⁓ Hopefully, I mean, even with the philosophical question, it's just this idea of looking at life again with fresh eyes and we pray that that is carried out to our audience. ⁓ We're not the highest quality, we don't have everything together, but ⁓ I think regardless, we have a great opportunity here to show. ourselves and to show other people what it's like to look at the world with fresh eyes.

Daniel Horne: To learn how to enjoy what God has given us. Whether it's spiritual, whether it's ⁓ relational, whether it's his word, communication, ⁓ or if it's physical. Because he does want us to enjoy the physical too, just along with all the other things. So, yeah, thank you for listening. Thank you for tuning in and we will see you next time.

Mickael Wilson: Amen. Peace out.