We

like

our intro live.

Welcome

to

the Haunted

Cosmos.

Just kidding.

Shout out.

Welcome.

I love that podcast.

That's great.

That's great.

That's great too.

Greetings and

salutations

dear listeners.

Thank you for joining us for the

Profumed Decay

Podcast.

Brian and Ben, if you ever want

to be on the podcast,

you are more than welcome.

We can have

a high

strangeness episode.

I think that'd be awesome.

High strength.

You're invited to

the pod.

Anyways.

Anytime.

Here on Haunted Cosmos.

Come on.

Fan pod.

Here on the

Profumed Decay.

I'm going to say that a lot apparently

because I'm thinking about Haunted

Cosmos.

Profumed Decay.

That's it.

I myself,

which is, which is?

Who is?

I am.

Yeah, you are.

Mickael.

Yeah.

We also have Daniel.

Daniel.

Daniel.

And Stavaun.

Stavaun.

And we,

we make conversations,

I think.

Yeah.

About things.

Sometimes we sit here and stare at each

other.

But we don't really air those.

Air.

Yeah.

I think we breathe on this

podcast too.

We have air.

We put on airs.

Aries?

What is airs?

Which kind of air?

Yeah.

Like E -R -R -O

-R.

Sure.

A -R -O -R.

A -R -O -R.

A -R -R.

Are we talking to H -E

-I -R?

Oh wow.

There's so many airs, isn't there?

Yeah.

That's great.

A -I -R.

Well, we don't talk about airs

on this podcast

unless we're

talking about airs of

Just the Kings

maybe.

Or E -R -R -S.

Or, with an accent,

E -A -R -S.

What we do talk about,

we guys listen with your

airs.

We venture

into.

I'm sorry guys.

I'm sorry.

I know.

We venture into

the spiritual

through the Bible,

believe it or not,

perfuming our experience

with the

sweet aroma,

the Word of God.

God's good.

And then partake of all else.

We talk about anything and everything

under the sun,

truly.

And we call it decay.

Why do we call it decay,

Steven?

Ooh.

We caught him half -chew.

He's chewing on some espresso

beans, I think.

Shpress room.

Yeah.

Some good.

Do you know?

Why are you on the podcast if you don't
know?

Wow.

Should we fire Blind Guy?

He doesn't like.

No, we need to fit

into D -A -I.

What is it, the quota

that we're trying to hit?

27 minutes.

Oh, this podcast is going to be extremely

short, just for everybody.

Oh, is it?

Yeah, 27 minutes.

You said 27.

No, no, You asked for what

our quota is and I'm like, yeah, the

Blind Guy gets 27 minutes.

Oh, yeah.

Well, we need to

diversify.

What's the diversification

quota?

We need at least one blind

person per episode.

And then I think every

so often we get

someone else that

is...

Also blind.

...slightly.

And also female.

More.

Are we trying to hook our boy up?

We're not trying to hook up anything.

Not even a car.

How

are

you going to charge your car, then?

Anyways, so we're talking about all

else on

the D -Gaz'dic K.

So I have to care.

Because it is, yeah,

it might as well be...

We just gave it by example.

Good example.

There you go.

It is just...

Gibberish.

Or it could

be...

Distancing from the

perfume that is the Word of God.

Yeah, it could be whatever.

It can be whatever.

And today we're going to be proving that.

We

have

proven.

We have, but today

even more.

Why?

We are.

We're changing things up.

You could say that based

on the name of this episode, which is

episode six, it's called the

new.

This is really episode six?

That's it?

I feel like we've done ten.

We've done a total

of eight.

With the haves.

With the havesies.

And the havesnots.

The havesnots.

Which you guys have not seen in that long.

Oh, actually we've done nine.

If we count episode zero.

count episode If we zero.

Jinx.

Wow.

Always in tune.

So weird.

Yeah.

And hot.

But...

Okay.

Someone say that?

What was that mean?

Is this mic

on?

This guy.

So today we're switching it

up.

We're switching it up because

we're...

We're going to...

You know, usually what we end up

doing is we have

a topic and we talk about that

topic the entire

decay

time.

Except for last time.

Last time we had a topic and then we

invited a guest last minute.

and talked We did.

about And talked about none of it.

right?

No, we only talked about decay.

Right.

Yeah.

We did like an intro and then it turned

into a, yeah, sort of

an interview, get to know you kind of
session.

I really liked that.

It was good.

And I like having guests on.

Your sister invited her

teacher.

Yes.

She told me.

I did, I did.

you hear back?

contact did I him.

He said he will think about it.

Cool.

That sounds like a solid no.

I also asked,

I also

asked my mother.

Yeah.

She said she'd be interested.

This also sounds like a no.

I'm sure my father would be

interested.

I'm pretty sure your dad would be on.

Your dad's cool.

I think we should.

Not to say your mom's not cool.

Your mom's cool too.

Here's the thing.

My mom's cooler though.

We should continue

to call them half

the

whatever

episodes.

Whenever we have people on.

Whenever we have people on.

Yeah.

Just because.

You started that.

So the way that I

opened it up to

her teacher actually.

Okay.

Was.

Which was her one, right?

Yes.

Okay.

Who were trying not to dox.

Which we haven't given the first

name, right?

Well, I have a first name, but.

We're gonna think of it.

It's up to everyone.

We can bleep his name out.

Yeah.

I basically said, you know,

you can come up with the scripture that we
go

over and you can come up with

the topic that we talk about or

whatever.

Cause it's, it is about

hearing their perspective.

Mostly.

We can talk about whatever

we want to

talk about, but I feel

like it'd be more comfortable

for whoever we bring on.

For them to kind of have

maybe, I guess their

own little opportunity

to have a

soapbox and talk about whatever.

Yeah.

I also just want to get to know Mr.

[nice try ;)].

Cause he sounds cool.

Yeah.

I wish she was cool.

Yeah.

You guys text or call?

Okay.

Yeah.

So it's not that serious.

Not yet.

It's not a second name.

Okay.

But, oh, and I also told them that you can
bring

in the wife if he wants to.

Oh shoot.

We're gonna have to set up another mic.

No, I think they should

probably share a mic.

Okay.

I think, yeah, I think if

we have only five people

or maybe six,

like they could share a mic with

Steven or something,

but.

We could just tell Steven he's on a

mic.

He won't know.

That's crazy.

And this is

why he, this is why

he

hit you with

the rubber band.

That's the least I deserve.

But anyways,

for the last few weeks, we have

not been

really doing any

specific scripture.

We've kind of just talked about

spiritual topics.

This week we are going to be

stepping back into

that.

Let's do it.

Starting where in chapter

two, chapter three.

Before we do that,

does anybody want

to

hear from him?

Yeah.

Yeah.

To hear about.

I thought we were gonna fire him.

We talked to him.

He was kind of

belligerent.

I think he

can be reformed

and I think he might've.

I think he's changed slightly.

He came around?

Yeah, maybe.

Did he talk to you?

Cause I didn't hear from him at all.

You know, I just told

him, you know, you got one more shot

and if

you don't.

So he gives us the

same exact script

with like maybe

a little bit like different

burns that

he's fired.

Yeah.

You hear to hear first.

You hear to hear.

Are you here to hear first?

You hear to hear first, folks.

You used your errors.

There's Billy Bob

Jenkins.

The third.

The third.

23rd.

27th time removed.

Oh my gosh.

Inside jokes.

You can't use the inside jokes

on podcasts.

You absolutely can.

The ghost runners

podcast does it all the

time.

That's messed up, dude.

Not Hong Kong.

Let's bring them in.

We should.

Later, during the K?

Maybe someday.

Let's do it during the K.

Bring who in?

Audience.

All zero listeners.

We're streaming live right now.

It sounds like you said zero -e.

Zero -e listeners.

All zero -e listeners.

Who's been calling?

I called him last week.

You can call him.

You want me to call him?

Yeah.

See if you need one.

Do you have his number?

Maybe.

You think he'll get

scared if you call him?

Scared?

Yeah.

Cause you were the one who you were

talking to him.

Oh, no.

I think he'll just be more receptive.

You think so?

Yeah.

I think he'll be more in line.

I'm very curious.

But yeah, if he

says the same exact thing as

last week as

the recap,

our boy's got to go.

He's not going to be our boy.

Here's what we're going to do.

What if he just doesn't answer?

Wait, I can barely hear it.

Is it the top?

Yeah.

There we go.

There we go.

There we go.

Bro.

Wait, you called me.

He changed his number.

You called me, dude.

Call Hugh, not me.

Call Hugh.

Let's try again.

You just got to re -sense and hit

the wrong thing.

Why is it not doing the bottom?

Do I have the wrong speaker?

Oh yeah, throw it on speaker, dog.

Oh, don't do Bluetooth.

This guy, This guy.

I should have called him.

He's probably wondering where we're at.

You manatee here and last

episode was a holy

speed run into

chaos.

Mickael and Daniel kicked the door

in with binocular

arena energy,

immediately got scolded

by a grandma hot

take about Christians drinking,

and then tried to summon a

theologians name like it

was a seance at Bible study,

only to finally land on

Charles Spurgeon after a

full lap of confusion.

Then they introduced the special

guest, Mickaela,

16 years old,

full natty, armed with

ADHD,

Minecraft, and the concept of

girlfriend games.

While the guys argued about

mannequins, espresso beans,

and why Mickael can't twist

a lid off without filing a

weakness report.

Somehow between roasting each

other like it's a spiritual

discipline, they actually

explained what perfume

decay means without

the whole thing combusting.

Today, Mickael and Daniel

are finally answering

last episode's

cliffhanger question.

Was there a cliffhanger?

The one they left dangling like

a cliffhanger on a theology

themed reality show.

If our will is always

trying to do good, do we

even have free will at all?

Keep your brain buckled in,

because they're about to poke that

idea until it either becomes

wisdom or start

smoking.

All right, our hosts Mickael and

Daniel, take it away.

Hey, he was a bit more creative that time.

You manatee here and last...

Oh, oh, I don't know why he

did that.

You're better at that than I am.

What are you talking about, calling you?

Um,

wait, so what was the last part you

said?

About us, the will, because

last time...

What was it?

The cliffhanger

on a theology

themed

reality

show.

If our will is always trying

to do good,

do we have free

will at all?

Ooh, yeah, honestly.

And that kind of rolls into what

we were going to talk about,

right?

Oh, and um...

And the decay.

Kind of.

Yeah,

which was...

You'll have to guess.

You'll have to guess.

And wait.

Guess the time.

10 -10.

No, I mean that's the time right

now, sure.

I'm saying audience,

since we don't keep a

regular schedule,

guess the time.

Like is it going to be an hour at

the section?

Oh.

Is it going to be two hours?

Is it going to be three?

You're going to be scrubbing a while.

Good luck.

Just listen through.

You never know.

We had one listener

in my sass killed

it, so...

Bye listener.

Bye.

Hope you find it dead.

I'll miss you.

So Genesis 2?

Genesis 2, yes.

We're starting at first.

Or do you want to do the check -in?

This is our first time

doing this, apparently.

What?

Doing this podcast?

I asked you like

16 times

to describe what

the podcast is.

No.

Like the order and everything.

No.

I told you what the

order was.

Did I get it wrong?

No, you're getting it right.

Yes!

Got him.

We can do a quick

check -in, I guess.

Sure.

What's...

How are you guys doing?

Horrible.

Okay.

Steven, how are you doing?

Apparently better than him.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's great.

Y 'all are curious?

Oh.

That's true.

Or the audience.

I'm sure the audience is curious.

They're curious?

Yeah, I don't really care.

Well, yeah.

I mean, that's...

So why are you doing?

Daniel, why are you

terrible?

I'm doing terrible

because my

girlfriend broke up with me.

You don't seem like you're doing terrible.

Yeah, I know.

Yeah, I mask it pretty

well.

But I'm dying inside.

Does Steven need to kiss you on the

cheek?

It's biblical, Steven.

Come here.

A holy kiss!

Holy kiss!

Give me a kiss!

That's a crazy face.

Was it good?

Yeah.

I'm going to snip that later.

Snip it.

Snip it.

That's going to be a snip.

So your girlfriend broke up with you?

She broke up with me, so no longer my

girlfriend, ex -girlfriend.

As they are.

She broke up with me for good reasons.

And we can discuss that later if we

want to.

Sure.

But I don't want to right now.

So

in

other news, I have

two dates this weekend.

Just back out on the market,

which I have

conflicted feelings

of getting back out

on the market so quickly.

How long did you date?

We dated for a month and a half.

Okay, yeah.

You can absolutely move on.

Yeah?

Yeah.

Four days?

Yeah.

All right.

If you had told me that it had been
like...

I still feel bad.

I wish two months.

didn't have We to break up.

Anything, I think, beyond

two to three months

is a rebound.

And rebounding's bad.

Oh, okay.

But you're going

on...

A month and a half.

Not even two months.

Yeah.

Well, if you count the time

between our first date and the time we

broke up, it was definitely two months.

Yeah.

First date doesn't really count.

It's when you're official.

Yeah.

Which we were official pretty quick, I
think.

And said, I love you

pretty quick too.

And we were talking about marriage.

Yeah.

And then I was...

The honeymoon phase,

you can't just do those things.

It's nice.

You don't like it?

You've never had it.

I have had it.

And You have.

And I have different

opinions.

What's your opinion?

Why?

So it was that

you liked it.

What changed that?

I'm pretty sure we talked about this last
time

too.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure

I gave my click spiel.

No, I'm pretty sure you said

you

disagree with saying

I love you.

And the way that I said like I

love you is,

to me it means

I'm sort of

doubling down

going to the next level with you

in this relationship.

It's like a choice.

And I'm choosing to

actively love you.

And that is gonna grow

over time

naturally.

And you disagreed with me and you didn't

explain why.

So there are different

phases

that I have

determined in a

relationship

that

are caused

by

certain acts.

Okay, one of those things

is

admitting that you have

feelings,

okay?

It elicits a different

kind of reaction,

right?

You start to feel all warm

and fuzzy.

Hormones go a little crazy,

right?

So you've admitted that you

have feelings for somebody, right?

Okay, then you become

official.

More emotions bubble

up, more

opportunities.

You can do more.

Your mind wanders

a little bit more because you're like, oh,
there's so much

more that's possible,

okay?

That's phase two.

Okay, the next phase, what do you think
the

next phase is?

Side hooks.

I mean,

to some degree, yeah.

There's a

pushing of, you know,

you've become closer so

you feel closer, so you do

more.

Touching.

To be closer.

Yeah,

killing,

whatever.

Yeah,

and that also

is another

stage because

you're going further.

And it's not necessarily bad.

But it's a

new dynamic.

You're creating a new relationship,

new things to deal with.

And

then after

that is generally

saying, I love

you.

And when you say, I love you,

you've completely

washed out all

the other stuff and you've

opened up a completely new

universe.

And it again

elicits an

extreme

response.

Same thing if you were to have

sex.

Love, the

word love

and having

sex are extremely

powerful

moves.

But you're not equating

them.

It sounds like you're equating.

Equating them in

the strength of

power, yeah.

I totally disagree.

Because one,

you are

saying,

I have this undying

devotion to

you.

No, it's called marriage vows.

No.

Yeah.

The word love

in our

culture and in

all cultures

is tied to this

idea that you are

unmovable,

you're immovable in

your devotion to

this person.

That's why we decided

so badly.

I've lied to all these

exes.

I have no idea.

I don't know your heart or your

mind.

But the

power

of saying the

word love

is not just

like, I mean,

granted, we say that we

love a lot of

things.

I love friendships.

But saying that

we love

another person

is very different.

Romantic love.

Because I love you.

I love you.

If you put anything

in front of it,

sure, it might dilute

a little bit.

But when you've,

again, this is a progression,

those hormones,

the chemical thing that is

happening in your brain

is causing a

stronger bond.

And the same thing happens in

sex.

You're creating.

To the nth degree.

What?

It's like a thousand times more.

Yeah, it's more.

It's way more powerful.

Yeah.

But you're still

creating this

thing that is

going to

amplify

your

bond

progression.

And like that

first time saying, I like you,

that's an amplifier.

Well, love is the next

amplifier.

Sex would probably be the next one

after that.

So it was three steps.

Well, no, there's more.

But like when

you,

I mean, hopefully before you

have sex, you

get

married.

And that's another

one.

But I'm laying these out

and I'm bringing up the sex

thing because it is

that intense

to say,

I love you.

And you are creating a

completely different

relationship.

So are you saying that

it's,

so I kind of hear you

saying two different things.

There's different

stages.

So you've got,

I like you.

You've got,

let's cuddle.

We've got,

well, I guess official.

We've got, let's cuddle.

Let's go,

I love you.

And then progressions from there.

But let's just stop there.

All of those are extremely intense

in that they.

bring about a new stage.

But there are

different levels

of

actual intensity

and that they

should happen at

the appropriate stage

in the relationship

where the

intensity level has

stacked already.

So like when you're married,

you feel safe together,

you feel secure

and it's just

natural, have sex

and that just bonds you more and

more, right?

But that's on top,

that's a very intense thing

on top of an

already intense

stack of

history

that has accumulated

over time.

Is that what you're saying?

Because the other thing I hear you saying

is,

saying I love you

is the

intensity of

100 sons

and the intensity

of sex is the

intensity of 100 sons.

That's,

so

I'm

doing a lot of different things.

I'm assuming a lot of different things

in this

because in our

culture, those two

things go hand in hand

quite a bit.

Sex and love.

Sex and love.

Okay, so you're coming from a cultural

viewpoint instead of

a judo Christian.

Well, but in a,

I'm also

primarily talking about our

bodies in our minds.

It doesn't matter what you

do, it really

doesn't matter what you've

gone through.

Somebody that you spend

a great amount of time

with, if you tell them that

you love them, at

a point that

is going to

greatly influence

your relationship and

in a

romantic

relationship, any

point in which you say I

love you is going to be

intense

and completely

change the trajectory

of everything.

I agree.

Whether positive or negative.

Yeah,

for us it was positive.

The

idea

that I try to

present is

like a good

timing is not

in,

and this is not

to say it's a one -to -one, but like

a good timing isn't

in the

honeymoon phase

because the honeymoon phase

is where that is

the most likely to happen.

It's the most natural.

The honeymoon phase is

when, oh wow, I

feel so good,

my feelings are driving

everything.

And that's fine and

that's good and

that's the way

it should be.

You should feel that way with

somebody.

Well, okay.

It can.

It is good.

It's a good indicator

that things are going

in a good way.

But moving

things

forward in

that place

is dangerous

because

it's

feeling driven and I

don't believe in feeling driven

things.

I believe - So you're saying wait for the
feelings to fade

and decide if you love this person or not.

You love the person when you

are able to serve them and

things are not

feeling good.

Feeling amplified,

feeling intense.

Yeah, I might agree with

you in some sense

because what I do ends

up sometimes biting

me

where I choose to love

the person even though

I shouldn't have

because I know that

hard times are going to

come

and in the feelings I

know, okay, I don't

love them because of the feelings,

but I love the feelings too.

Like they're great.

All the butterflies,

it's a good time, right?

But when I say I

love you, it's me saying

I both feel that

for you, but I'm

also choosing to

tell you I'm gonna stick through the

hard times with you.

And that's - To a certain extent.

I'm not saying like

covenantly,

right?

But it

doesn't matter

necessarily because

either way

people are going to

- Interpret it the way that they say

it.

Yeah, they're going to interpret it.

And they're primarily going

to interpret it within

cultural -

Unless I clarify.

Take

this from somebody that

clarifies like it

is the only thing that

is possible in the conversation.

Sorry, what?

You do?

Clarification means nothing

to anybody

because

everybody is filtering

everything through their

perspective,

not through your perspective.

You're saying instead of me telling them I
love

you.

Instead of you telling them you

love them, you start off

by setting a boundary.

And the boundary is we're not

going to say this

until we are past a

certain phase.

But you don't say that.

You do say that.

Why?

Why would you set that boundary?

Why would you set that boundary?

That's crazy.

Because you want to know

if they're going

to be driven by their emotions

or driven by the

truth.

Can't say be both.

Truth drives emotion.

Truth should drive emotion,

but how often do people

actually, how

often are people actually

driven by the truth?

Take Adam and Eve for instance.

What were they driven by?

Not the truth.

Juicy fruit.

The feeling.

Yeah.

And that is a huge

part of the fall.

Is your feeling driving

what you're doing rather

than the truth?

I think it's nuts to

set a boundary with a girl.

For saying I love you.

Hey, let's not say

this.

for First.

a specific amount of time.

For this period of time.

That's nuts.

How is that nuts?

It just is.

That's a psychopath conversation.

How is it a psychopath conversation?

Steven,

is that a psychopath conversation?

Does that sound horrifying to you?

Is it just me?

Well, I wouldn't

say it necessarily.

Yeah, you would just like

resolve within yourself,

right?

Yes.

That's what I would do.

Because one,

and if you want to talk about

socially

construct now,

women will basically say

that you're controlling.

Oh, If yeah.

you correctly say that.

Possibly.

Not all women are the same.

No, no.

We're not saying that.

Right.

And so - I might

come across that way.

Another thing that

Mickael is

very well known

for, I don't care.

You're not the person for me.

If you're going

to think that this

is me controlling,

or you think this is wrong, or you

think, I

could not

care less.

I couldn't.

I really couldn't.

You're a waste.

You're not.

You're a waste.

No, you're a waste of my

time.

If that

is what you

think and

I have to

conform to

whatever,

I'm not going to,

I do not want to

allow that to come

into place.

And here's the thing, it is a

discussion.

It's not me telling you it is a

discussion.

Hey, this is a boundary that I

think we should make

because of X,

Y, and Z.

Do you agree?

When should it be?

And the thing is, that

everything

should be a discussion in

a relationship.

You should say, hey - Well, it's not

a relationship.

We can talk once

a week, starting

off, or maybe once

a month, and just see

where things are at.

Oh, like have a check -in.

Yeah, just see where things are at.

Sorry, you talked to your

girlfriend once a month.

No.

Can get you away with that?

Oh my gosh.

Talk, check - You need

your secrets, Mickael.

Check in on the

relationship, you know,

in the midst of having all the

fun, doing all the things,

you know, take the time

that is

for the

relationship, that is,

I mean, everything's for the relationship,

but that is for

seeing where things are

at, saying, how

can we do better, or what needs

to change, or whatever, are

we at sad

point, or we're not at sad

point, because

everything's a discussion.

Everything is open

for conversation,

and then everything can change

from time to time.

This sounds like a one -on -one.

Could we do it over Zoom?

That's what I - Monthly.

Yeah, monthly.

But that's

- Yeah,

and every relationship is

different, like I said.

So,

you know, like, maybe

it was the right time

in your relationship, I don't

know.

But I know that I've watched

- Relationships crash and

burn,

or go completely

sideways.

Because they do any number of

things before

they're meant to be done.

And the thing is, that how do you know

when it's meant to be done?

You don't have to have a

conversation.

Yeah.

And you have to set boundaries.

I had several conversations with

[Doxed?].

Right.

Doctor.

I'll bleep that out.

I had several conversations

with her.

Leading up to that.

About like,

yeah,

I don't have to explain the conversations,

but I had several conversations before

them.

So having the

conversation and saying,

let's set a boundary to not

do this within such and such

time, doesn't mean you're not going to

feel that.

Does not mean that you're not going to act

upon that.

Does not mean it doesn't exist.

There are going to be signs.

You're going to know when

that exists.

And I did.

And it doesn't

matter

because if you

can restrain

yourself from

something good,

it is going to be that

much more beautiful

when

you

slowly

allow it in.

Because that is also a form of

restraint.

Same thing with waiting for

the right person.

When waiting for the right

person, you're not

just

scouring

heaven

and earth

to find this

person.

Because it's the only thing that you can

do.

You're restraining yourself because you

have to live life.

And you also have to not

idolize this

situation.

And what happens

when you

cause a

huge

explosion

of emotion,

truthfully you idolize it.

That's what happens.

When emotion starts driving

things, it is because

you are

idolizing it

in so many ways.

I mean, what do you think about?

What do you desire?

What comes first?

What do you dream about?

When

those things

happen, I'm not just saying you, I'm

saying everybody.

When a huge

emotion

happens

and

it's running through your

brain all the time, what are you

thinking about?

That is an idol.

When it comes before God, when

it comes before

everything else, it

is an idol.

And it takes

restraint, it takes self

-control to

draw yourself

away from that.

in the And the first

thing… thing being

what needs to come

first, the actual priority.

So you're not setting aside

saying, I love

you and that

you don't want to say

that.

You don't, yeah, you wouldn't

not mean it if you said

it.

Yeah.

You're setting it aside to

make sure you're not

putting that

person before God.

Yeah.

I like that.

I'll run with that.

Well, and there's an

interesting concept in

Song of

Solomon, Song of Solomon,

whatever it's called.

The best one.

But, you know,

young women do not stir

up love before

it's time.

What the heck does that mean?

It means what they can

do very

easily.

Just, I mean,

women don't have to do a lot

to stir up

love.

All they have to do

is give

their attention

and men

will flock.

That's it.

And it's as simple as a look,

it's as simple as a way of a,

as simple as a high and they

will fantasize, they will

idolize.

You're talking to a guy talking to them.

Huh?

No, I'm saying a woman giving

attention to any

guy.

And the guy will fantasize.

And the guy will fantasize.

Are you sure?

That sounds backwards.

No.

Do we live in different worlds?

A guy has

to do a whole lot

more.

To get a girl's attention.

To get a

girl's attention.

I don't know about you guys, but girls
flock

to me.

Okay.

I'm sorry.

You're so good looking.

And he's off

podcast.

It's just me and Steven now.

Joking.

Slap.

But

I

hesitate to say this because I'm about

to get canceled.

But for a second

time today.

Only a second time.

Well.

Yeah, I know.

We're out and doing better than last time.

Speaking of doing better,

we're doing off at this

opening.

We're doing the decay again.

We're racist.

Our openings are always going to be

lying.

It doesn't matter what we do.

I know, dude.

I feel good though.

So we're going to have an actual

episode about this at some point.

Because we should.

we cut it short and do an episode about
that?

No.

Why not?

Let's have some self -control, dude.

Some self -control?

Yeah, dude.

You're insane.

What do you mean?

I'm insane.

Well, finish what you're going to say.

Well, that's cliffhanger, dude.

Oh my gosh.

Fine.

I'll say it.

You really want me to cancel, huh?

Anyways, I'll cancel myself.

Here we go.

I've heard it said that

women have a hard

time

fantasizing about a

relationship when it's

not happening.

So, for example, they

want to be with a certain

guy because they're attracted to

them.

And so then they

imagine what life would be

like if they were,

you know, their boyfriend

or, you

know, husband, whatever.

I don't know how far they imagine.

But they're in a

mental relationship with

this guy before the guy

even makes a move.

And then the guy makes

a move on someone else

or doesn't make a move on

them.

And it breaks their heart.

That's what I've heard.

So, look at it this way.

Women are in a constant

state

of overthinking.

Men are not.

Except for me and you.

Right.

But

it's

just more so.

Comparatively,

a man's brain is not

wired the way that a woman

says a woman can, her brain

can go a million

different places

and still be

linear.

It's all connected.

And yeah, it's all

connected.

And a guy's brain is we

need to be focused on one

thing.

And that's the difference.

I love this analogy.

Spaghetti and...

Well, yeah.

But do you

understand what that difference is?

The practical difference,

like the practical outcomes.

Yeah.

So, a woman is

constantly,

everything is connected,

everything is boom, boom,

boom, boom.

But for a man...

That's why it's easy for them to look at

a guy and think of the

entire relationship.

Yeah.

But for a man,

that's everything.

We have to focus on

one thing.

That's everything.

The instant that we focus on that.

What's up?

You ever heard?

That's everything?

What do you mean?

I'm saying that's...

It's a very, very,

like,

oh, she's pretty.

And that's it.

That's the box.

I'm saying that that

becomes the focus.

That she's pretty, for example.

Well, no, just her becomes

the focus.

And nothing beyond that.

Like no future.

Well, everything

can come with that.

But it's no, it's

the difference that

a woman's brain is all

over the place all of the

time and a man's

brain is not.

Sounds like a superpower.

What?

Being everywhere all at once.

Isn't there a movie about that?

Everything everywhere all at

once.

Yeah.

It's an interesting movie.

Crazy movie.

I don't know what I think about this.

Steven's gonna say something.

Kind of with the box

thing,

I heard it said

that

men

have a

mind out of like a

shell of boxes.

Yeah.

Like pull one out.

Basically could be sports,

relationships.

We keep once

one box is

done being talked

about.

We put it away and then we get the next

one out.

Yeah.

We could have multiple boxes.

It's It's like object permanence.

permanence.

Yeah.

Yeah, but

anyways...

The closest those ideas

ever get is that they're like right next
to

each other.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

And then a

woman's mind is more like

a ball of

wire.

Like it's all bent

together.

It's all touching

basically.

So it all runs together.

Yeah.

They did...

I remember seeing

on

a short

that

they did a study

on

like men

versus women on what they

think of and

that

when women

went into a room

and

were

asked, what did you

think about?

And men were asked like, what did

you think about like 30 minutes

as far as the time

period

that women thought about

past...

Excuse me.

Past conversations

and it

kept running through their head all

the time.

Doesn't matter what conversation it

was, kept on going through their

head.

Guys pretty much

sports.

Yeah.

That was basically

sports, sex,

and it was just

those

were the only things.

Well...

It was objects instead

of...

Yeah.

Well...

Well, it's more

focused

on

one broad

thing that

they can give all attention the to.

That

doesn't

really lead anywhere

else.

Whereas in a woman's brain,

they're taking every through

line.

Yeah.

That sounds so

exhausting.

Yeah.

But that's the

difference is that their

brain

does...

their brain moves around,

right?

A whole lot more than ours

does.

Yeah.

Ours focuses on

that thing.

And it can take every

aspect of it.

And that's...

But again, that's the difference.

She can kind of move

around the topic

and be in

different things and we'll

still obsess,

but it's a

very different experience.

So what's the point?

Why are we on this topic?

Because I'm just saying

that...

It's rapid backwards.

Saying all of you is

dangerous.

I agree.

Yeah.

It's very risky.

But

I did

with this girl

and it turned

out okay.

And the reason she broke up with me was

not because of that.

It was another personal issue that I

need to work on.

But the

upside

is

I believe

that is the

last major

issue that I need to work on

personally before

I'm,

I guess, if anybody could ever be

qualified

to get married,

which has always been a goldmine.

And God just shook his

head

because I wanted

to get married at like 18, 19.

And God was just like,

nope, ain't gonna happen.

Good luck, buddy.

You're gonna win the hard way for so

long.

Yeah.

And it's gonna be a good time.

But that's how I'm doing.

Yeah.

How are you doing?

I am

just

in a state of

transition mentally,

emotionally, away

from...

I don't.

Because we are 45

minutes in and I will

get into the podcast.

45 minutes on Mickael, let's go.

Steven, how you doing?

Doing all right.

Trying to plan stuff out in the

future.

Possible moves.

Big moves.

Small moves.

Chest moves.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Chest moves.

Chest moves.

Of chest moves is what you guys

initially...

Can you guys...

No.

Can't chest moves.

I'm not necessarily like that.

But just

to

explain

it...

Bless you.

I learned how

to play chest in like

second grade.

And coach was

just basically

like life.

As soon as you guys

get out into high

school and beyond,

chest is pretty much like

life.

You're always strategizing.

Always thinking of the

next move.

Yeah.

Or two or three

ahead.

And trying to plan but

sometimes the plans don't

always come out.

Yeah.

For sure.

But you're planning.

Yeah.

Pretty much.

Yeah.

Well, I'm excited to see those

plans come through.

I'll see.

Yeah.

Because those plans involve

me and Mickael, right?

Hopefully.

Bless you, bail out, honest.

You think I'm going to bail?

Yeah.

You think I'm Christian Bale?

Well,

I am Christian Bale ahead.

You were always throwing

that

your ex,

you and her were going to get

married and you were going to move

out.

That's fair.

I say that about every ex.

This is true.

I'm very committed until they

aren't.

Which means he's very

pushy.

I am kind of pushy.

Yeah.

I love pushing boundaries,

which is not good.

Yeah.

but But there is a place for

that.

There is a It's place.

called an innovation.

So there's a place for

being pushy.

Sometimes not, most

of the time not in

relationships.

So I've gotten better at

it.

Have you now?

I have.

You married yet?

No.

I'll get there.

Doesn't mean he's not getting better.

Yeah, I mean, what I

do now is I gauge,

I ask questions, I have

conversations, and if

they're not

on the same

wavelength as I am, then

that's fine, I move

on.

That's how I push.

I push away.

Gosh.

We need to have, apparently we

need to actually have

a relationship about

ourselves.

Yeah,

relationship.

Because we're talking

a lot more about ourselves this

episode somehow.

Okay,

so Genesis

chapter two

and three,

we're gonna read through that.

We are.

Top to bottom.

Yes, now is our time

to perfume our

experience with

the word of God,

which is

very

important,

something that we

should be doing in our

lives anyways.

And yeah, we will be

starting in

Genesis chapter

two.

Do we wanna pray in?

No.

No.

I don't think so.

We'll pray out.

Do we pray in?

Oh, we do pray into this section.

Dear God, thank you for this day, thank

you for this podcast,

thank you for your word.

Please help us to

read it, understand it,

to be able to get through

it,

and see everything that you want us to

see, say everything that you want us to

say, please keep our mouths

shut if it is not a good

thing to say.

And God, we love you, amen.

So I think we're starting...

You want me to start?

After...

Verse five.

I know you're...

We're starting, no, we're starting

after nine.

After nine?

Yeah.

So verse 10.

Because we talked

about everything up to that point.

Yeah, so we're starting...

So we're talking about the tree.

Sprout up the trees.

So the food looked

good.

And then there was a tree of life

in the midst of the garden, and

then the tree of the

knowledge of good and evil.

And that's where

we sort of

branched off.

And talked about free

will for two or three weeks.

Now we're in verse 10,

I'll continue.

A river flowed out of Eden

to water the garden,

and there it divided and

became four rivers.

The name of the first is

Pishon.

Yeah.

Pishon.

It is the one

that flowed around the

whole land of

Habbalah, where there is gold.

And the gold of that land

is good.

Bedillium and Onyx stone

are there.

The name of the second river

is Gihon.

Gihon.

It is the

one that flowed

around the whole land of

Kush.

Good Kush?

Anyways.

And the name of

the third

river is the

Tigris,

which flows east

of Assyria.

And the fourth river is

the Euphrates.

The Lord God took the man

and put him in the garden

of Eden to work

it and keep it.

And the Lord God commanded the man

saying, you may

surely eat of every tree

of the garden, but of

the tree of the knowledge of good and

evil, you shall not eat,

for in that day that you eat

of it, you

shall surely

die.

Then the Lord God said, it is

not good for

that.

It is not good that the man

should be alone.

I will make him a helper fit

for him.

Now out of the ground, the Lord, hold

on,

sorry, I just threw it, God's right.

All right.

Now out of the ground, the

Lord God had formed

every beast of the field and every

bird of the heavens and brought

them to the man to

see what he would

call them.

And whatever the man called

every living creature,

that was its name.

I got to pause here.

Notice how he

starts one subject and seemingly

moves on.

Then the Lord God said, it is not good

that the man should be

alone.

I'll find the helper for him.

And then it talks about him

creating all the beasts of the

field and bringing them to

Adam so that he can name them.

It seems like he switched topics there.

Just want to point that out,

real emphasis and then move

on, ready?

The man gave names to all the

livestock and to the birds

of the heavens and to every beast

of the field.

But for Adam,

there was not found

a helper fit for him.

There it is.

So the Lord God caused a deep

sleep to fall upon the man.

And while he slept, took

one of his ribs and closed

up its place with

flesh for surgery.

And the rib that the Lord God had

taken from the man

he made into

a woman and brought her

to the man.

Imagine that scene.

Shoot, dude.

Good.

That's great.

You should take your water bottle off the
table.

Why?

Because it's shaking and making

a rumbling sound.

Oh, it is?

My bad.

All right.

Just want to stay hydrated, dude.

Then the man said,

oh my gosh.

He said, this

is at last,

this at

last is bone of my

bones and flesh and of my flesh.

she shall be called

woman

because she was taken out of

man.

Therefore, man shall leave

his father and his mother and

hold fast to his wife and they

shall become one flesh.

And the man and his

wife were both naked

and were not

ashamed." Oof,

what a day.

That sounds like a good day,

you know?

That's a long day.

A feast.

God brings you a naked woman.

Bro, all right.

You wanna read three?

Yeah, I can read three, cool.

Now the serpent was

more crafty than any

other beast of the field that

the Lord God had made.

He said to the woman, did God

actually say, you

shall not eat of any tree in

the garden?

And the woman said to the serpent,

we may eat of the fruit of the

trees in the garden, but God

said, you shall not eat of

the fruit of the tree

that is in the midst of the

garden,

neither shall you touch it

lest you die.

But the serpent said to the woman,

you will not surely die,

for God knows that when you

eat of it, your eyes

will be opened and you will be

like God,

knowing good and evil.

So when the woman saw

that the tree was good

for food and that it was

a delight to the eyes

and that the tree was to be

desired to make one wise,

she took of its fruit and

ate,

and she also

gave some to her husband

who was with her and he

ate.

Then the eyes of both were

opened and they knew that

they were naked and they

sewed fig leaves together and

made themselves

loincloths.

And they heard the sound of the

Lord God walking in the garden

in the cool of the day

and the man and his wife

hid themselves from the presence of

the Lord God

among the trees of the garden.

The Lord God called to the man and

said to him, where are you?

And he said,

I heard the sound

of you in the garden and I was

afraid because I was naked

and I hid myself.

He said, who told you

that you were naked?

Have you eaten of the tree of which

I commanded you not to eat?

The man said, the woman

whom you gave to me,

gave to be with

me, she gave me

fruit of the tree and I ate.

Then the Lord said to the woman,

what is this that you have done?

The woman said, the

serpent deceived me and I

ate.

The Lord God said to the serpent,

because you have done this,

cursed are you above all

livestock and above

all beasts of the field.

On your belly you shall go

and dust you shall

eat all the days of your

life.

I will put enmity between

you and the woman

and between your

offspring and her offspring.

He shall bruise your head and you

shall bruise his heel.

To the woman he said, I will surely

multiply your pain

in childbearing.

In pain you shall bring forth

children.

Your desire shall be contrary

to your husband, but

he shall rule over you.

And to Adam he said,

because you have listened to

the voice of your wife and

have eaten of the tree of which I

commanded you, you shall

not eat of it.

Cursed is the ground because of you.

In pain you should eat of

all the days,

eat of it all

the days of your life.

Thorns and thistles it shall bring

forth for you and you shall

eat the plants of the field.

By the sweat of your face you shall

eat bread till you

return to the ground.

For out of it you were taken,

for you are dust and to dust

you shall return.

The man called his wife's

name Eve because

she was the mother of all

living.

The Lord God made for

Adam and his wife

garments of skins

and clothed them.

Then the Lord God said,

behold the man has become like

one of us in knowing good

and evil.

Now lest he reach out

his hand and take also

the tree of life and

eat, you and live

forever.

Therefore the Lord God sent him

out from the garden of Eden

to work the ground from which

he was taken.

He drove out the man and at

the east of the garden of

Eden he placed the cherubim

in a flaming store that

turned every way to

guard the way to

the tree of life.

My phone's about to die.

So interesting that

we were already talking

about relationships

and

how this

section kind of

already is kind of

drawing from that.

In boundaries.

In boundaries.

But I guess,

you know,

what are your

guys thoughts

first?

Out of all that,

what's,

is a lot about just

God finding

a mate for the

man and then just

taking that out of him.

And then the result of that

relationship basically,

if you will, because

yeah.

Well, the serpent showed

up when Eve

was there, but

the serpent can only

show up when God allows.

We see that in Job.

So I'm thinking if

the serpent showed up before

Eve,

man would have fallen too.

I mean, the guy was standing there with

her

thinking, oh yeah, honey, that looks

good.

However you're cooking in the kitchen
there,

that's great.

I've heard it said

that

Adam

actually failed as

a man,

not because he

just did what his wife

said, but because he wasn't

protected in the garden from

this

serpent.

How did the serpent get there in the

first place?

Yeah.

And

so

there's,

it's not laid out as

a sin,

but it's

a result of him

not living out the

blessing that God

gave him, which was

to have really

control over

what was going on

over the things

that

were happening there.

And it, I mean, it seems

to me like he

just decided to

sit there

and be,

yeah, and spectate.

Yeah.

Especially if he's right next to his

wife as she's talking

to a serpent and

then knowing

what God said

and just

doing what she says.

Also,

did God

tell him or did he

tell him

and Eve?

Pretty sure he just told

Adam.

So did Eve even, well, I

guess Eve

said like this

is what God said.

Yeah.

She

recanted

that too.

So Adam had

obviously like informed

her.

But when she got it

wrong, he should have stepped in and

said, well, hold on, hold on,

wife, this is

actually what God said.

I was there.

My bad for...

So he wasn't only

not protecting the garden,

he was also not protecting

her in that very

moment, being

present.

And he also ate.

So he himself was deceived.

Yeah.

So you could

argue that Eve was

deceived,

but really

who should have known better?

The man.

Adam should have known better.

He was there.

So...

Like why didn't he do anything?

Come on, guys.

Like was he focused

on like...

I mean,

honestly,

he probably was.

He was looking down.

Yeah.

And up and down

and back up.

Sorry, guys.

I mean, he probably was.

Yeah, I was checking her out.

That's the only thing that I can

think would be

if he's right next

to her.

Yeah, he was in a different world.

He was in the wrong box.

Yeah.

I guess.

He's thinking about his wife.

Instead of thinking about,

oh, there's a

snake.

It's talking.

Oh, there's things that I And have...

should we're standing in front of the

tree of the knowledge of good and

evil, which God said that one thing

about,

but, whoo.

She's hot.

Right.

It's like, I'll listen to her.

It was a body like that.

Right,

right, What if he's like,

I have no idea what she just said, but she

just handed me something.

I should probably take a bite.

She'd take a bite, and I might as well.

I mean, it's rude if I don't.

Yeah.

I mean,

she's my wife, so I gotta do what she's
not.

We're joking, but if

that were the case,

he still wouldn't be leading.

He still would be foregoing his

responsibilities, and he would

still be the one leading

them both down.

Just because God gave you

a hot wife doesn't mean...

That's the only thing you can focus on.

Yeah.

You have a job.

He also had to realize too,

I've read

it

in even

the King

James version,

and another version is

that it did

take convincing for

the serpent to

convince the woman

to take a bite of the

fruit, but not as

much as

she

was trying to

convince Adam.

She didn't even use a single word.

Well, no, she did.

She did?

I

thought it

said something

like

she

had to convince

her.

And she gave some

to her husband

who was

with her and he ate.

Yeah.

So maybe she said something, but it

doesn't actually say anything.

The other point I was gonna make out

is, the other part,

when God shows up,

he actually

is kind

of like a kid blaming

a sibling.

Like,

dad,

she

caused

the woman

you gave me.

Well, and it's interesting too,

because who does...

Like we're saying, who does

God call out?

Adam.

He doesn't...

Also check this out.

So she eats of the fruit

first.

Nothing happens.

He eats of the fruit.

And then all of a sudden, both of them,

both of their eyes are open.

Let me read it back.

Let me read it back.

She took up the fruit

and ate.

And she also gave some

to her husband who was

with her and he ate.

Then the eyes of both

were opened.

Not just Adam.

Both.

Interesting.

After Adam ate.

And they both

knew that they were naked.

So imagine

what would have happened if

Eve ate and

Adam said,

Oh, no, no,

Let me take a responsibility here.

I see you saying that the fruit doesn't
actually have

any power.

Not necessarily saying that.

You've said that, not really.

I have said that.

But I'm also really

stupid.

We all know this.

Maybe it takes two to

activate the facts.

Well, it takes two to tell you.

Yeah.

That's the first time that phrase was ever

created.

Nice.

Nice.

But even before...

that,

it says that they become

one flesh.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

So if half the flesh eats

and the other half doesn't,

are they just a guilty?

That's what I'm wondering.

It's like, if Adam didn't eat.

Or if like half the flesh

eats it, the whole

thing isn't affected.

I think it's – I think it –

I think what

Daniel,

you're trying to get to is

that because

Adam is the

head.

Yeah.

What he should have

done is said

– is basically

questioned her, why did

you do that?

And then

told her

not to.

Yeah, no, he have.

shouldn't And then probably called her

to repentance to

God.

No.

I think really it should have

been him going to God

and saying, I allowed

this to happen.

Like being straight up and honest

with God.

Because he was there.

Yeah.

He literally – But also saying

like, you know, yeah,

that's fair.

But he needs to – he needs

to – She

was ignorant.

Satan said, did God say

this?

And she said,

yeah.

And right then he should have

said,

no, honey, like this is actually

what God said.

Yeah.

Instead of waiting for her to

fall and

then

chastising her for

it.

That's the better Adam.

Yeah.

Yeah, he should have

fixed it from

the get -go.

Should have could have would have.

Should have could have would have.

And I mean, we see

a lot of things that

result from that.

But I think in

a lot of ways this is

a great

picture of,

I guess, our human

relationships.

Because yes,

this is what

caused

all of our issues.

But it's

also where,

you know,

we need to

understand that our

current

situation,

you know, though we're not dealing

with, you know,

the

–

like affecting

the entire world or

all of existence,

we are

dealing with

generations.

We are dealing with effects

on the people around us.

We're dealing with, you know,

we have consequences

that are

important.

And you know, every

everything that we do

affects all

of it.

Like everybody's paying

attention.

Stupid Hamilton.

But you know, you don't get to

choose who pays

attention.

You don't get to choose

who writes your

story.

You know, when when you have

children, you don't get to choose

what they – What

they do.

Repeat.

What they see

you do and then

do themselves.

You don't – I mean, they see it

all.

And you know, whether we

want to admit it or not,

everybody around us

sees it all.

And so

we're

– one little thing

that we do affects

way more

than just

that one

interaction, that one

conversation, whatever.

It's a huge

ripple effect whether we want it

to be or not.

I mean, you

can think about it like the

game of telephone.

But you know,

if I tell my best

friend something tomorrow

and then he goes and tells

his mom and then his mom goes

and tells her

coworker and then her

coworker talks about it

to a group of people

and then maybe it ends up in a

sermon and then you know,

that sermon gets spread around.

I mean,

that's not like a

perfect picture, but that

happens.

And it happens way more than we

think it does.

I mean,

I've had people from my old

church tell me that they

talk about me.

And I'm like, that's weird.

Like at the lunch

table, like

they're all sitting around

and they'll talk about me.

And they'll have guests and they'll

have whatever.

And they'll talk about

me to other people.

I don't think about

other people talking about

me because I'm really

hoping that people just don't

care.

But it

happens.

And when

you take into consideration

how often people are

actually talking about you,

bringing you up, whatever,

based on things

that, you know, like

maybe you have a small

relationship with people.

If you're extremely

close to people, how much

more do they talk about you?

How much more does that ripple

effect go?

I mean,

think about how often we

talk about

as a

culture,

first impressions

and how

someone doing a

nice thing for you

sends ripples through your

life.

And think about the videos

that are made

nowadays.

You know, someone doing something nice

for somebody and you watch

that video and you're like, wow,

I'm motivated.

And so

it's so

much more than,

you know, it's not

the eating of the

fruit, but our

relationships

and the things that we do,

we really do

have to be

conscientious.

We really

do have to be

aware of what's

going on and constantly.

growing in awareness,

because there are some

things that we can

affect

that are just

slipping by

because we're not

trying to pay attention.

We're not trying to be

good stewards of the things that

we were given by

God.

We're so much more like

Adam in,

I mean,

especially as men, we're so

much more like Adam in the

idea that things

are just slipping through our hands

because we,

of the excuses, like, oh,

I have a one track mind or

I'm

whatever the excuse

is, or I'm focused on

this thing,

blah, blah,

blah.

It's like, that's great.

But Adam

still being a

man,

maybe having the exact same mind

that men do

today, whatever,

was still given

headship over his

wife to

lead,

to protect,

to have

dominion over the land.

That didn't go away just

because...

To clarify.

Dominion over...

The earth.

Not his wife.

Yeah.

It was to rule

with his wife.

Yeah, yeah, Yeah, not over.

Well, no, I said to rule over

the land.

Yeah, I know

people could

mistreat

that.

And this is a great

picture of how

relationships

actually are

and why

it's so important

to pay attention.

I mean, really merely

jump in.

Sorry, I barely paid

any attention

to the last five

minutes.

Can you repeat yourself?

I can't because I

don't remember all of what I

said.

All right, bad joke.

Sorry.

Okay.

Cool soapbox.

I don't have a comeback.

I don't have any comments.

10 out of 10.

Okay, wow.

That's a new one.

Steven?

No, I think it was said

perfectly.

Yeah.

Wow, dude.

That's okay.

You did something perfect.

I don't know about that.

For the first time

ever.

Ever in my entire

life.

Savor this moment's never gonna happen

again.

That's funny.

I mean, I

guess it is

kind of a...

Like, well,

yeah,

this is the

result.

Or the result of the fall was this.

And thus,

all of our

relationships are kind of this

way.

Some degree we reflect

them.

I kind of want to run off of the

relationship

conversation.

I'm gonna go to

the garden

itself.

Tried to 2 verse 10.

My phone's set, so.

Yeah.

It talks about the four rivers.

The river that flowed out of

Eden,

it watered the garden.

It divided and became

four rivers.

So there's one main river that turned into

four.

The first is Peshon,

the second is Havola.

Wait, no, that's the land.

So Peshon,

Gihon,

Tigris, and Euphrates.

I really

hope that when we're in

heaven, we get to see that.

The rivers?

Well, yeah, see what it was like.

See what the garden was like.

It's kind of like

when you go to a museum

and you see history

in front of you.

In the

architecture

or in the

things that they

found.

I hope God has

saved that.

Somehow for us

so that we can see

the wonders of

his creation in

that way.

Like his original creation.

Because the

way it describes it just

gives me

OG Indiana

Jones vibes.

Interesting.

This is what Indiana Jones is based

on.

Every one of those

adventure,

fine

treasure movies

is sort

of based on chapter

two of the Bible.

Because first

off, water is super

valuable.

It waters the entire

garden and it splits

land just the way it does

today.

And then you've got

the first

land is

the land where

there's gold,

Havola.

Why would the Bible mention gold

unless it was valuable?

And then it mentions

onyx,

adelium, whatever

that is.

I'm actually curious.

Steven's looking it up.

Here we go.

It's spelled B D

E L

L I U

M.

Which chapter is it on?

Oh,

chapter two,

verse 12.

Anyways, that's the that's the feel

that I get from reading this

is like

there's treasures

in this land.

And then exciting.

I feel like that's

so exciting.

I mean,

I think there's

place to

acknowledge

that

these like

kind of what you're saying, like

these are in the Bible.

And the

thing is about the Garden

of Eden, we

can't You can't experience

it anymore.

You can't go there.

It's being protected, so.

Well, it's gone now.

Yeah.

It was wiped away in the flood.

What?

Maybe.

Maybe.

What do you mean, maybe?

Do you think it's still out there?

I think it could be,

because.

Just buried under a bunch of!

I

mean, dude,

the thing is being protected by a

flaming sword

that

is looking

from side to side

guarding the garden.

It could be in a special

bubble.

It could be.

Do you think it's buried somewhere?

I think it could just

be

something that

we can't experience.

I think it.

I mean, obvious.

This is an interesting idea.

Once we are born again,

I mean, we are born again, but once

we have new bodies and

we're in heaven and

there's the new earth,

let's say it's the new earth here

where the earth is

made new again,

as it is, right?

Sin is taken out of it, right?

And now we

can experience that

and not be in any danger

because we

are not sinful anymore.

You think God's gonna do this

grand excavation

and reveal,

ta -da!

The garden, it was on the

Phoenix, Arizona.

No,

I think

everything

apart from

man,

everything good, I'll

say,

is merely

to be

a foretaste

of something greater

because

that's

revealed in a lot of

different ways to be the

case anyways.

Our relationship with

God right now is

just a tiny,

tiny little fraction.

Experiencing his love is just

a tiny, tiny little

fraction.

Marriage is a tiny

fraction of

the bonds that

we can have.

That we do have.

The things that we enjoy,

the wonder, all of it

is

minuscule.

And I think God is

just,

he has,

he created

the heavens and the earth

and

it was good.

And then he created man and it was

very good.

So there's

levels.

There's something,

there's ways in

which he can

do better

than what he's already

done.

That sounds impossible.

And it sounds impossible,

but - God prayed a rock

so heavy that he

can't lift it.

Who cares?

One of my least favorite

questions.

But it's a

non -answerable question

because it's like asking

to divide zero by zero

or zero by anything.

But

if

you're God,

you can always make something better.

But if you

don't

make something the

best,

are you like holding

out?

You know what I mean?

I mean,

just because you have the best

materials doesn't make

something less,

yeah,

doesn't make something less

or

more necessarily.

So it's the best yet?

No, because God didn't

create us to be

valuable.

I'm sorry, what?

God didn't create us to

be valuable.

Sounds sacrilegious.

What

would

he create our

value to be?

In him.

Right.

So if we are in him,

he didn't create us to be

valuable to anything else.

He created us for

himself.

So him creating us

- Was for himself.

Him creating us

is good enough.

Because he created us for himself.

So him, whether or not - I

see what you mean.

Yeah, so whether or not he,

just to maybe clarify

it more for the audience,

whether or not he uses

the best

materials

in all of his

imagination,

or he uses dust.

Which he did.

It's for him.

And so - It's for his glory.

It's only

for him.

So the value in it

has nothing to do with

what was used.

It has everything to do with

what he did

and his decision.

And what he wanted.

And what he wanted.

So - It's like,

if you and I go to a

movie and we choose

which movie we want to

watch.

Yeah.

It's good enough.

Yeah.

Like, yeah.

And that's - Or better

food that we've

had before.

We choose to go and eat

this food instead of this

food.

Yeah.

And it's good enough.

Is it the best?

No, but it's good

because we intend to

eat that food.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, it's like me

and my

friend Jose,

we went to village

in for years.

And I don't know if you've ever

been to village in, it's

not good.

Whoa.

It's not good at all.

It's very - Sorry village in.

It's very, very bad.

I'm so sorry for - But

we went there partially

because of the free buy.

But also because

that's just our

spot.

We could have gone anywhere else.

Yeah.

We could have gone anywhere else, spend
our

money way better.

But it's not - about that.

It's that that's what we

decided we wanted to do.

That's where the connection was made.

That's where the bond was.

That's, you know, when

people knew us there, we

had our specific waitress,

we had the

whole thing.

And that's what,

that's in a weird way, that's

kind of how God

is.

He's like, this is how I

want it to be.

This is how I intended it.

And that's why

it's about

his intent, not

our intent, not our

perspective, not our view.

It's about what he desires.

Which makes me so curious about,

like, why he does

the random things he

does, which seems so random to me,

but aren't.

But why did he create the lead vie

then?

Why did he create dinosaurs?

Why did he create everything in six

days?

Why did he create a main

river instead of just creating four

rivers?

Why did he put gold in one place

instead of all the places?

Like, I have so many questions.

Maybe it's

for

the

pure fact to

have us asking why.

Why though?

I feel like

I'm...

Because part of the image of

God is the

imagination.

I think we had said that

last episode, maybe

a few episodes ago,

and to create.

We wouldn't create

if we never asked

the question why.

If we just knew it all.

If everything was

so

ridiculously

binary, I

guess,

we would just...

Think of it this way.

Minecraft.

Okay.

If Minecraft was just a

flat world,

which that

is

possible,

it was just a flat world.

There was houses off in the

distance.

You could talk to villagers,

and there

wasn't anything below the

grass.

What would you do?

Break the grass.

You'd be like, why am I playing this game?

You turn it off?

No.

But if that was our

life,

we wouldn't be doing

much.

We wouldn't be full of wonder and awe.

There wouldn't be a whole lot

for us.

It would just be go to

sleep, eat.

I mean, literally in Minecraft, that's
what it would

be.

And take away breaking

things.

Take away building.

Take away whatever.

Because why?

It's kind of like when you play Minecraft
on

creative.

After a while,

I'm numbingly bored.

At least I do.

Because you can literally do everything.

That's the

other side of it.

I can do so

much,

but what

am I

going to do?

It's too much.

Yeah.

And

God

basically

said,

here is

everything.

Here's where I've set you,

use these materials that

I've given you.

This is

what's going

to make you ask

why.

This is what's going to get you

moving.

Because if everything

left us in a state

of standing

still, we would be

standing still.

But there's so many

more things

that are pushing us forward

or pushing us backward.

And think of it this way.

And this is not

necessarily in this

same context,

but God doesn't like

the lukewarm.

He spits him out.

But he doesn't say that about

the hot or the

cold.

He says just about the

lukewarm, just about

things that are sitting still,

just about things that

aren't moving at all.

Because you can work

with something

that is

moving at all, whichever

direction it's going in.

Sure.

If we're not assuming real

physics,

because cold is the absence of movement.

Well, right.

We're just saying two different
directions.

I just had a

possibly mind -blowing

thought.

We were made in the image of

God.

And part of that image is to

be creative.

And you're saying in order

to be creative,

you have to not know.

And we have to be curious

and have to

sort of be

able to discover.

And so if we

had all

knowledge and all

answers,

there would be no more discovery.

And therefore, no more movements,

no more curiosity, no more

creation

coming

from us.

And so for God to

create

man in his

own image, he had

to withhold.

So really,

man's entire

purpose is

to discover God,

whether that's through

one

relationship

with him, like Adam and Eve,

walking with God in the garden,

whether that's what we do

today,

praying,

reading his word, whether

that's what the disciples

did when Jesus was

on earth, walking with

him every day, or if

that's through

discovering

all the Easter eggs

that he put in creation,

right, asking the questions

why,

and discovering the answers,

and realizing with each

answer answer, there's there's a

thousand new questions.

questions.

And that's supposed to

be pointing us directly

to how

infinite

the Creator

is.

Every time we feel like we

get a step closer,

we in fact get a thousand steps

behind.

Mm.

Are we more – we

recognize how far

away we actually are.

It's that idea

that if you

don't know anything, you're arrogant

and you think you know

quite about – quite

a lot about a lot of

things.

But the more you know,

the more you realize you don't know

much, if

anything at all, compared to

the grand scheme of things.

I mean, we're in a

tiny nook

of the entire universe,

almost not even worth batting

an eye at.

Man.

Well, have you seen that

video

by Louis Giglio?

It's called How Great Is Our God?

It's a – Maybe.

video.

–

It's part of a series, but

– I used to

watch it like once a year

because it

really is a

good reminder,

I guess.

But basically, the whole video

is about

him

saying

–

comparing

the Earth

to a golf ball

and then

comparing a golf

ball to the size – or,

well,

the Earth to the

size of a star.

So he starts off with our

star.

Oh, and then it scales up for – And then
it

scales up to Yeah, – I've seen that

video.

What's the last one that he

does?

Or some minor or something like that?

Another star.

Another star, a huge star.

Like the biggest one at that point,

I think which was in 2012

or something like that.

Okay.

And it's mind -bending.

It's ridiculously

huge.

Like the way – I think

that last one,

he says, if the Earth

were the size of a golf

ball,

this star would be

so big

you could

take a

golf ball,

go to New York,

place it down,

step back, and look at

the size,

and you could take

– you could

stack like

a bunch more

Empire State buildings

on top of the Empire State

Building.

It would still be bigger.

Like 15 million

times or something like that.

Oh, that's gorgeous.

And that would be the

radius

of this star.

Holy cow, this is half.

Or just something

like that.

It's just so

ridiculously

outrageous.

But that's huge.

Just a star.

That's just a star.

And he

basically says

like –

he says at one point,

he's like, okay, find yourself

on the golf ball.

That's where I'm at.

Mark it down with your

Sharpie or whatever.

He's like, that's you,

and this is the

star.

Half the star.

And then he shows

another

point.

,000 15 Empire State buildings.

Oh,

I don't know how big

it actually was.

Steven, do you think your monocle

would be able to see that part?

No.

Well,

I mean,

someone else could probably

see like

something way

off in the distance.

My vision is nowhere.

I don't think anybody would be able to see

that.

15 ,000 Empire

State buildings stacked on top or

whatever the number is.

I wouldn't be able to see it from the top
of the

Empire State building, I don't think.

So there's also –

it looks

like dust

in

sun rays,

basically.

But it's actually a

satellite

millions of

light years away, taking

a picture

of

like, I don't even

know necessarily what it

is.

But it really looks

like sun rays.

And our

planet

is in the midst

of it, and it's the

tiniest little thing.

This is millions of light years

away.

Millions.

And then –

Wait, hold on.

The picture's taken a million

light years away from us?

Yes.

This can't be a real picture, though.

Yeah.

It can.

No.

The Voyager hasn't even

made it past

two

light years.

Okay, maybe not light

years, but millions of

miles, sorry.

It's a long ways

away, is what I'm trying to say.

It's very long ways,

but it's so far away

that there's

all these stars

around

in space.

Our whole solar system is like in this

pen.

Yeah.

And our planet

is so

tiny.

Anyways, and then he

compares it

to

– and

then he brings it in,

he's like, okay, well, we're

so fascinated with

the cosmos.

And then he brings it

back, and he's like, okay, well, what
about

us?

And how intricate and how

crazy and how

massive – get real You small.

Yeah, you get really small,

and then he brings it back to this

thing called a cell

adhesive

molecule called Is that – T -cell?

Yes.

Yeah.

It's called laminin.

Is that what it's called?

Okay.

And – What does it do?

It holds your

cells together, like

literally.

Like your skin?

Yeah.

It's the stuff that makes your skin

stretchy?

Yeah.

Or lasses stretch?

Well, no, I'm pretty sure

from the way – that

he described it, it

holds literally

everything together in your body.

But it, I mean,

if you look at the way

it's actually like under a

microscope, what it

actually looks like, it's a little

lopsided, but

it looks like a cross.

And whether or not

you

believe that or

care or whatever,

it looks like a cross

and that's not

a mistake.

Yeah, that's not a coincidence.

As Christians, we don't believe in

coincidences.

Yeah, and God

can do that.

And He would do that and

I truly believe that He

did.

And I mean, He

did.

Yeah.

He created us.

Yeah.

Did He mean that?

And He literally holds ourselves

together.

Was that the intent?

When He created that, I don't know.

But there's

a sense of like, He

knew that Louis Giglio

would interact with

a scientist, who would tell him

about this thing, and then he'd have

a whole sermon series basically

centered around it.

And it's like,

all of creation

can be that way.

The deeper we go into

all of creation

is just going to point

us.

What's mind -boggling about what you

just said, too?

What's up?

He knew that Louis

Giglio would

be a pastor,

that he would want to do a sermon,

and that he would be

blown away

at the fact

that

we're so tiny

in the universe, and yet

the tiniest things that

keep us together

are in

the shape of the

cross.

The fact that

God knows that

is mind -bending.

The fact that He knew

that is mind -bending,

because we're talking about

us trying to discover

what is

here and now,

not about what is

here, now,

in the future,

or even in the past.

There's paths that we just can't know.

It's all theory, because we

can't prove it.

Impossible.

God was there at the

beginning.

He knows it all.

And He was at the beginning,

and He could

see Louis

Giglio,

and He created it with that intent.

Do you know how ridiculous that

is?

It's pretty ridiculous.

It's crazy.

And that was just

one

tiny little example.

That's just one human in

a sea of,

what, trillions?

No.

Hundreds of billions.

Hundreds of billions?

That's it?

If not a hundred billion.

But even still?

Yeah.

Still a lot.

Mind -bending.

That's crazy.

Elon Musk could easily give every

human being

who's ever

existed a dollar.

Yikes.

Adam and Eve would be like, what is

this?

What the heck?

Yeah.

How did this get here?

Yeah.

What?

But you say to him, I mean,

it's like God

created us

to discover Him.

Yeah.

All of creation cries out?

Mm -hmm.

So it's

mind -boggling to me that

people don't see that.

How do you not see that?

It's also, well, how

did Adam not see

what was going on?

I mean, right in front of him.

Yeah.

That's fair.

And I mean,

and again, it's

as simple

as maybe

pride,

or it could

be as simple as he's

distracted.

Yeah.

Which is laziness.

Ooh, it's distraction.

But it's,

he was there.

Yeah.

He should have been

doing something, and

he didn't.

I mean, he had two, he probably

had multiple chances, but two

chances,

three chances,

I would say.

First chance,

okay, we'll just say four.

I'll stop there.

He could have stopped the serpent from
coming into the

garden.

Mm -hmm.

That's number one.

Number two, he could have

corrected the

serpent and said, what are you doing

talking to my wife?

And also, that is not what God said.

Talk to me, not my wife.

I know what you're trying to do.

Stop twisting God's

words for your

own...

Your own purposes.

Yeah.

Right?

By the way, the first journalist.

Crazy.

Got him.

Shots fired.

Then he could

have

responded

when his wife

said, this is what God

said.

And he

said,

honey, no, I must have

not explained this

properly

enough.

Forgive me.

This is what God said.

And then

fourth

chance,

he's still

distracted by her

beautiful

figure.

Here's a crunch,

and then she hands him

the piece of fruit.

That's his fourth opportunity.

He's holding this thing.

He's now not distracted.

He should be aware at this point.

What is this thing that I'm holding?

Where am I?

This is the tree

that God told me not to eat

of for whatever reason.

That was his fourth chance.

And so he

decided

not to respond

to any of those chances.

And I'm sort of assuming there

that if Eve

ate of the tree and

Adam stepped

in and said,

no, we're not supposed to the eat

industry.

of this tree.

I'm I'm assuming that.

somehow that would have been okay.

I don't know.

Probably not.

What if...

But...

I would be

inclined to think that

there'd be a fifth

chance

after they

both eat and instead

of hiding, he says,

what we've done is wrong

and we need to ask...

Repentance.

For forgiveness.

Yeah, we need to repent

because,

I mean, that's...

It's still disobedience.

The whole Bible is about...

I mean, yes, it's still disobedience,

but there is

forgiveness of sins, right?

Not then.

Why not?

Punishment.

Technically, them...

God's justice.

Well, yes, but technically

God...

I mean, they

sinned, right?

Yeah.

And because they sinned,

Jesus'

sacrifice

covered their sin.

But then they would have still been

fallen because Jesus would have

to come and die for the house.

Right.

But

it's to

say that there is

a way in

which, hypothetically,

if they had repented,

then

it would have been a very

different interaction,

right?

Who knows?

Maybe the curses would have been

lessened.

That's what I was thinking.

Maybe just things would be less

bad.

Or maybe

it would kind of

turn everything around in

which the cycle, instead of

being perpetual

sinfulness,

it would be perpetual

figuring

out when to ask for

forgiveness or something like

that.

And then it would all change.

I'm not God, so I can't figure

it out.

But it's...

I highly doubt that, though.

But

no

matter what, they didn't

repent.

They didn't go to God and

say, oh, what I did

was wrong and ask

for His forgiveness.

So I've heard it

from a pretty

popular pastor.

I forget his name at this point, though.

I believe he preaches in

Africa.

Oh, man.

Anyways, he says I know

what

Adam

should have done.

Because the better Adam, Jesus,

died.

He took his

brides sent upon

himself.

So what Adam should have done when

she ate of the fruit is

go to God and

say,

take my life.

Take my life first.

Well, yeah, and that's kind

of what I was...

He stops.

That's kind of what I was

going to get to, is that

he should have.

He should have given his life.

And he would have been a worthy sacrifice,
too.

He would have.

Being sinless.

In a sense,

maybe there's a chance

that God would say

no

and then

sacrifice a

lamb or something

else,

whatever it

is.

Because God is

gracious and merciful.

Or Adam would have taken the

punishment and not died.

Or died and not

died.

Maybe that's what Jesus...

Maybe there would be a new man that's

created or something.

Or maybe...

Yeah, I don't know.

But we

can just backspace it

all along.

All we know is what Jesus actually

did.

And what is good

enough?

But going back to what we were

saying before,

it's...

If we almost look at

it like all of

creation was

created

so that

we could get

to the point that we're

at technologically,

however you really want to look

at that,

there's an

infinite number of

perspectives.

And all through

history, highs and lows,

whatever it is.

I mean, we're still

marveling at

empires from

hundreds,

a thousand years ago.

And God

knew.

And he

kept some of those things

around.

And we're discovering

other things that

he's maintained

in

Israel

that

he just kind of

kept hidden.

He's just like, nah.

Like what?

Well, like

there's a

Solomon, not

Solomon's tomb, but like

something from Solomon

in Israel

or something like that.

That is like they'd been

looking for it forever.

They knew it was there.

It's the right area,

everything.

And they kept digging and digging

and digging and digging.

They just couldn't find it.

And now, after

years, just

so long of

looking for it, they can

finally find it.

And

they

found the well where

the lame

man

got healed.

It's a huge,

huge well.

And they could not find it.

It's a pool, right?

Well, yeah, it's a huge

pool basically.

But

it's

far deeper than

anything we would imagine.

And they hadn't

found it for who

knows how long.

And you're saying that

you said God

is hiding it?

Yeah, absolutely.

So that we can continue to

discover.

You think he's directly

involved in hiding it though?

That's a different

question for me.

is Or that just the way the cookie

crumbled?

I mean, I

think...

Or is that the same thing?

To me, that's the same thing.

Okay.

To me,

that's

same

outcome,

different paths with

different intents.

Yeah.

I mean, the way that I look

at it is that

God is

active.

There is such a

thing

as the supernatural.

Yeah.

By the way,

everything is natural and

everything is supernatural at the

same time.

Yeah.

But

more

supernaturally,

miracles,

wonders,

different things where it

is… The

abnormal that is directly

happening because

of God.

Yeah.

And God

intervening instead of

sustaining.

Yeah.

Okay.

And it's

a sense of… I

mean, God could

technically just have that be

an angel.

And in a lot of cases,

a lot of cases, it

is an angel.

So it's like, well,

God

commands armies.

He commands all of creation

to do His

will.

But He also

created

plants

to do their

thing.

He created the human body

to do what it's going to

do.

Yeah.

I mean, He made it

possible for electricity to

do this, to do

all of this.

Wild.

I mean,

electricity isn't

like, oh, we kind of just

put it together.

Like,

no, we harness

it.

Yeah.

We don't necessarily know

where it came from.

Like, how it is

possible.

We just know it's possible and

we… Well, we kind of know.

…use it.

Because we know that it comes from

atoms.

But why?

Why?

We want to get into a physics lesson.

I mean,

but…

Question of why.

Of why.

Yeah.

How does it work that way?

Why does it work that way?

But the thing that we're talking about,

the reason is so that this can

happen, so that this is

possible.

So this podcast could happen.

Maybe so that… One viewer's sick.

Maybe for our sake only.

Yeah.

I mean, it could be

for… If we were to get a

million viewers, it could be for that
reason.

Whoa.

If it was just for us, it could be for
that

reason.

If it was just for

an interesting idea, it could be

just for that reason.

Yeah.

I mean, the

scale is not

dependent on

us.

And again, like, I've told people about
this

podcast.

Like, how many viewers… Before we

even

started it.

Yeah.

Just the concept.

Yeah.

I mean, just think about the concept.

The concept is interesting.

I've talked to people about just

the concept of the podcast.

And I think… The perfume decay.

And they're like, that's very

interesting.

That's fascinating.

I really like that.

Cool.

And maybe they use it.

Yeah.

Maybe they use that.

And there's a huge ripple

effect.

And so,

it's kind of like…

If we were to just look at one

part of creation…

Well…

Stephanie really likes you.

I know.

It's because… Oh,

there we go.

But yeah, if we were

to look at the

first day, for instance,

we're… I mean, we talked

about it that first time

and called

it the creation of time.

Yeah.

That alone.

I mean,

it did…

Time kind of does…

Right.

A lot.

It kind of

has a huge effect

on… It's instrumental.

Everything.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And

it's… It's

also just

a abstract

idea, too.

Right?

What do you call…

It's the basis of

how everything

moves

forward.

Yeah, but do things

actually move forward?

It's the idea.

So, things move forward because

we keep track, right?

Well, things move forward because

there's day and

there's night.

Yeah.

But also,

how do we

determine that someone

is getting older?

Day and night.

It's that our

cells begin to break

down.

Yeah.

And we begin to, quote,

age.

But increasingly,

we're viewing aging

as a disease,

which it is.

Mm -hmm.

The fall.

Mm -hmm.

Right?

And it's becoming

a

crazier disease

because just

the evidence is like

people before the flood

could live upwards

of like 500 years

easily.

Right?

Now we can't do that.

Well, God limited

the… Well, okay,

that's… The life expectancy.

We should talk about that.

That's a good decay

portion.

Let's do that next week.

Okay.

Yeah, we should write that down.

Well, he does literally

say that.

Well, we'll talk about it.

But increasingly,

it's seen as

a disease that can be

reversed.

But the way that

we

see

someone aging

is

gravity having its

effects,

people's cells not being able

to repair themselves as well.

Mm -hmm.

And if it weren't for those

cues, we wouldn't know if someone's

older or or not.

That's why that that… phrase

exists of like,

oh, you're this age,

you don't look it.

CBE Right.

That's a very

strange phrase.

CBE Or even you're

more mature for your age.

CBE Yeah.

It's like age

isn't really,

it's age, yes, is

based on like the

day night cycle,

but only

in the fact

that it's an interval.

That's it.

So you could say

I'm 28 years

old, meaning

I've been on

Earth for 28

times around the sun.

But you can measure that in any other

way.

You can measure that in

the sun,

like how much distance

it's traveled through the universe

or around the Milky Way.

Like I'm

0 .001.

But, but,

the Milky Way revolution's old.

But, CBE

also God set things

up for us

to see the world

in this way.

CBE Yeah.

In a common way.

CBE Well, in the common

way that we do.

CBE He created the standard.

CBE Yeah.

CBE Yeah.

But our age

is determined by

our experience.

Your age to me

is determined by the way you

look.

You see what I mean?

You see where I'm going with that?

So if you look like you're

50, but you're actually

70,

how else am I supposed to know

that?

CBE Other than me telling you.

CBE Yeah.

And the only way I know that is

if I track the intervals.

Because I'm only 28,

and the other day I forgot if

I was 28 or not.

I thought wait, hold on, am I

27?

I forgot.

And CBE I'm only 28.

Come on.

My mom forgot she was 40.

Three years in a row.

CBE Well.

CBE Yeah.

Which at that point she was 43.

CBE I saw this funny

thing on TikTok.

It was like, this

guy's like on a

date or something.

And he has

a Pokemon and

his

date.

And it's like, oh, how old are you?

And he's like, he's like,

I'm 10 and have been.

CBE Well.

CBE That's

crazy.

CBE I went straight

over that.

CBE So

in Pokemon,

Ash is supposed to

be 10 throughout

the entire series.

The series goes on

for years.

CBE Yeah.

So he's been 10 forever.

CBE So he's been 10 forever.

10 CBE I'm and I have been.

CBE But yeah, but

that's not how time

works.

So it's just

funny.

And there's like tons of theories

behind it.

But it's

just this weird

thing.

But no, you're

right.

CBE I feel like I'm hitting on something

and there's something there, but I'm

not quite hitting it.

That's the feeling I'm getting.

CBE I feel the same way with what

you're saying.

CBE Well, let's move on.

Because there's so much more.

But yeah,

I agree with

you

in the

initial premise

that, or just I

guess more of your epiphany

that everything

God knew.

And it's

happening.

CBE That's right.

CBE And the creation

of

everything was

because

of

one, his intent,

but also,

I mean, he knew that this

was all going to happen before the
foundations

of the earth.

CBE Yeah.

CBE And,

well, he created it.

And God being perfect can

create

all

the dominoes to

fall exactly the

way that he wants

it.

So in that way, you don't need

time to create everything all

at once.

CBE Maybe God is time.

CBE God created time.

CBE God created time.

CBE Maybe

God is

the interval.

CBE Well,

I think that's the

path that I was going down.

It's like time is a figment of

our imagination, of

our experience, of our

perspective.

But when you're God,

you can create everything all at

once.

All of time, all at

once, because you

can line up the tiles

perfectly to fall exactly

where they need to lie

in the end.

So it's like creating a

hyper -complex machine,

and you know exactly how it's going to

work

throughout

the beginning

to the end.

And so in that way, there

is time because

creation

becomes

something.

But in a different way,

it's not

time, because you've already

created it all.

CBE Yeah.

Well, there's the already and the

not yet.

CBE Yeah.

CBE One of my

favorite…

CBE …is salvation.

CBE Well, with everything.

CBE Everything.

Explain, please.

CBE Well, it's just the idea

that in God,

because God knows,

it's already happened.

CBE It's as if it

already happened.

CBE Yeah.

CBE Or… CBE So

it

has happened,

and it is

happening.

CBE So this is talking

about perspective

and experience.

CBE I mean, to some degree, I mean,

it's a concept that we

cannot understand.

It's the idea that the kingdom

is here,

and the kingdom is coming.

And God knows

When, how,

where.

why,

all of it.

And we don't.

That doesn't make any sense.

It makes sense because he's outside

of time, but if he's

outside of time, time

to God,

technically already happened,

but it is happening.

God can be at the beginning or

he can be at the end.

Does that mean he's outside of time
though?

I hear that a lot and I've

believed that for a while, but

talking about like

as the engineer of

all creation,

he creates the machine

exactly the way it falls

and knows exactly

how it's gonna end up in the

end.

But because he created the

machine, does the

existence of the machine

necessitate time?

Like he knows exactly how it's going

to end because he designed it that

way,

but he still

experiences the

machine unfolding.

Well, here's the thing.

God

is

called the

beginning

and

the end.

So do you think God is

both here

and there?

Like he's omnipresent

and we think of that

as in 3D

space,

but is he omnipresent in

4D space?

Right.

Well, and again, I don't,

it doesn't make any sense.

No matter how you slice it,

doesn't make any sense.

But is that what you're saying?

No, what I'm saying is, is

that this isn't a

ridiculous concept.

Time itself is a ridiculous

concept that is

hard to wrap your

head around because

I mean, if in

human terms,

time is what you're saying,

it's an interval.

And I mean, we can reduce that

interval down

to - Or lengthen

it, whatever you want.

Or whatever.

But to

God, who's infinite,

who made it possible for us

to do that,

excuse me, who is infinite and

eternal, so

he had no beginning.

He has no end.

And he created

what, I mean,

truthfully, our

concept of

time.

And he knows all of

time.

So it

affects, he's

at the end.

But is he actually

at the end?

I mean, why would

he not,

why could he not be?

I mean,

his being is

not limited by my understanding.

Right.

So he could be.

So he could be.

And - I just, there's no way I could

understand it.

Just like us as three

dimensional beings can't understand a four

dimensional being.

Yeah.

But he would have

to be outside of time.

Not necessarily.

I look at it this way.

I mean, if God is just

a prophet,

sure.

Prophet?

A prophet in that

he can just see the

future.

But if he can just see the

future, but he

created all of time, those

two things don't make any sense

to me.

But what I'm saying is

God created

time because of what

he created.

Exactly.

Not that he

created time and then

created stuff within it.

So if you create a

timeline,

say on

Excel sheets,

you can look at the entire

timeline

from up here.

But it doesn't mean that

you're outside of it.

That's just a design.

But God,

why would God not be able to

see

literally everything that he's

created?

That's not what I'm saying.

But if he can

see it, is it

not?

Like if he can see the

future and

he,

I mean, cause God is present in the

future,

right?

And he's the same

yesterday

and forever.

And he's eternal

and he's

infinite.

And he's all powerful and

he's all these

things.

It would just be

mind boggling to

me if

he couldn't just

step out of time and just

look at all of it and be like,

yeah.

Or if he's,

in my mind, he's already doing

that at all times.

And he's just

chilling outside of time.

But he chooses

to watch

it and let

it play out and live

through it all.

And live through it all.

But he's at the

beginning, he's

in

time and

he's at the end of it.

So you're saying God is

infinite in many ways,

not just in that

he's always been

and always be.

will If he created

time,

which he definitely did,

he can't not

be

outside

of time.

That's what I'm saying.

Is he

could be bound by

time in

theory,

but only because time

only

exists based

on the

observer.

So if

God is

there to observe, there is

time.

And then if

there's

his creation to observe,

there's time.

That experience of that

time can vary

wildly.

And we know this

factually through

relativity.

I

think

it's the faster you go,

the less time you experience,

you know what I'm talking about.

Black hole stuff.

But I think

what I'm

slightly

convincing convincing myself of

right now.

And I don't want to make any conclusions
right now.

I kind of want to think about this more.

But when God

created

the…

I'm just going to simplify creation back

to Domino's.

When he created… Actually, it's

too simple.

Machine.

When he created the machine that is

creation,

he designed it.

Which, by the way,

so many people crucified you

just now.

Like, so many times with you saying that.

Why?

Calling you a machine.

We're not robots!

Sure.

But we're assuming

determinism here.

Right.

Well, are we?

In our human minds, maybe.

Yeah.

But again, we're talking

about a concept that is already

and not yet.

Right.

So why would it be already and not

yet?

It would be already because it was
designed.

And it's going to happen that way

because he's the

designer.

And he's perfect

at it.

There's no like, oops,

that happened.

Oopsie.

It's… Everything's going to work

exactly as he intended

it.

So that's the already.

The not yet

is… It's yet

to actually occur

for all of creation.

And so that's why I'm saying

God, in a

sense, is at the end,

was at the beginning,

is here

right now.

But… So in

the middle of this,

there's something that

I think is

kind of at the core

of why we truly do

not understand this.

Okay.

God is… Yeah.

He said the Moses, I am.

He is.

He is the only

thing that

is.

But still doesn't put him

outside of time.

But… But that is not

something that we

actually

get.

Yeah.

Because we are only

becoming.

We are not…

Yet.

Is.

We are not

finished.

Really.

And so everything

we will

be… Right.

And us we're beings.

Right.

Right.

But we

only

view

everything in

light of becoming.

Right?

So we're

striving, our

desire is for

absolute.

Right.

The idea of

determined,

of is,

of be,

I am.

Right.

We're trying to be

a hundred percent.

But God speaks

and it is.

Right?

Yeah.

He knows

and it is.

Right.

So… But when God

says he

is… He was at the

beginning and he's at

the end… Does he

say that?

He says he's…

Alpha and Omega.

Right.

The beginning and the end.

Which is… He is

that.

He is that.

Okay.

I see.

But again,

it's so

much… So much of that is

rooted in

something that we

don't… We really

don't… We can't understand.

We have

so little

of a grasp.

So I'll tell you…

That it's progressive.

I'll tell you in the

audience… Okay.

What I just thought of when I

said I see what you mean.

Okay.

I've thought of us

as God's creation as

how

we dream.

And we imagine things.

And so if

that's at

all close to

what this is,

then that means

all of

creation beginning to

end is

from God's

imagination.

Meaning like it was

just take it totally literally.

Meaning we're in his head.

Right.

Which means he is

all of

it.

I'm not saying everything's God.

That's not what I'm saying at all.

Not a lot of people took a big breath

and a lot of people are mad at you

now.

They're like, dang it.

What did he say?

We thought we had him.

But that's why I was like,

okay, I see a

possibility that

that could be

true.

It's like God is

everywhere,

including everywhere

within time.

And that's not even like the one way

that you could see it.

That's not the only

way you could see it.

It's just one.

Being that we are God's imagination.

That doesn't make us any less real.

Yeah.

Right.

I mean, just… Right.

My experience makes me real.

All right.

Well, our experience

is what reminds

us that we're real, right?

But ultimately, it

is as

God is that makes us

real.

Yeah.

We're doing it as a way to meta.

Steven, you got any thoughts before

we move on?

Yeah.

Continue to move on for

sure.

We could go on forever at midnight.

I think we can definitely

talk about time

in the future.

No, it's a good one.

I love time.

Time travel.

Oh, that could be a

topic.

We should look for evidence

that… So, you

know how people

say the

angel of the Lord is Jesus?

What is it called?

The… When Jesus

shows up

before

He's

showing up

in the future,

is that proof that God

travels through time?

Right.

Interesting.

Let's touch on that and then then…

different Okay.

Different decay.

Let's see here.

I'm determined to get through these

chapters.

We've pretty much got through the

chapters.

You think so?

Yeah, well, just run through it.

Because we talked about

everything

previously

already.

We did.

And this is us

actually

reading it

full all the way

through.

I talked about the relationship

thing.

We've already

dove so

deep into the trees, into

the garden, into

sin, into the

curses and all that different

stuff.

The whole thing of

God

slyly pointing out

to Adam, hey, you don't have a

helper.

Like God notices

it,

but doesn't

tell Adam directly.

He lets Adam figure it out.

Another discovery.

Boom,

right?

And he guides

Adam to that

discovery.

Crazy.

Interesting.

Yeah, I like that.

Because

I

for sure have been

guided by God to where I

am today.

For sure.

And I think I've made decisions

along the way.

And I have, I've

named stuff.

Just like Adam was naming

the giraffe as it walked,

lumbered through.

So I'm making little

decisions here and there because

that's the way God created

me.

But it's guided.

It's guided decision

making.

Like we've been talking about with

Will and Joyce and

all that stuff.

How when

we partake

in God's

creation and have kids of our own,

we guide their decisions.

Do you want to go to

McDonald's or Burger King?

Why are those the only two options?

Because that's what I said last time.

There's a whole universe

out there.

I want to go to Planet Mars.

Eat space children.

Whoa, dude, chill.

Anyways, that's chapter

two, 18.

And that's just

mind boggling to

me.

God guides him to

that as soon as

Adam realizes it.

Like God

puts him to

sleep.

Well, you know what's interesting

too.

And fulfills his

desire.

Yeah, he guides him,

God guides him towards

that, right?

Knowing full well what

would come next.

And he still chose

to call

man, general

man,

very good.

Right, yeah.

But then later on he

amends it and says, it's

not good for that

man to be alone.

Right.

Yeah.

And still chooses to say

that.

Yeah.

Still knowing what would come

next.

What he's gonna do.

It's almost like a relationship

move.

Meaning he

made

Eve

with Adam.

Literally and

relationally, right?

With the rib.

But also he didn't

just create Adam and Eve

together.

He brought Adam along

in the process.

Which is a, he let

Adam discover what he

needed and then

gave him what

he needed.

So, okay,

hold on, hold on, hold on,

hold

on.

You sound like you get some ideas.

I'm going to declare that we

have stepped into decay.

This is our portion

where we step into

all

else other than the Bible.

We're still talking about the Bible, so

suck it up.

But okay,

the first question that we have written

down for

the topics of

decay, one of them is, do

we actually want free will?

Full freedom is what I'm kind of calling

it.

But before we get into that,

to kind of prove

the point against why

we would not want full

freedom.

All of our

life, right?

Everything that

happens,

okay.

God knows, okay.

And I think on any

side of whatever

argument,

like God says that he knows,

God knows.

He can't lie.

He can't lie.

He can't lie,

can't.

That's the way it is.

He just can't.

And so God

knows and

that's where

everybody,

if you're going to have a problem

with God,

it should be with that.

Because if

he knows,

then one of two things is

happening.

Either he is a

malevolent God

who likes to watch.

People suffer.

His creation

suffer.

Yeah, sorry, malevolent's a big

word.

Can you explain that?

Malevolent, it's basically just

like evil.

It's.

All powerful and evil.

Well, no, I

mean, he could be

all powerful and evil, but

that's not.

Malevolent is just.

Malevolent is just an

extra dramatic

word for evil, I

guess.

I mean, I don't like it, it's evil.

Did you just say that he likes evil?

I think I did.

Anyways,

but,

or

he is

good

because he is declaring what

is good.

And his

approval,

his allowance,

in light of his approval

in in light of

him declaring what is

good is

declaring that

everything after

will inevitably

be good.

Ooh, right?

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Because, well, the

Bible says that

everything is for His

glory.

It is for the glory of

God.

And Paul

declares on several

accounts that it is

for, that everything

is for the gospel.

He lives his life for the

gospel.

And we see types and

shadows, right,

through the

Old

Testament,

everything pointing to Christ,

even, well, especially.

I mean, we even talked about it in the

first few verses,

pointing to Christ.

And I mean, you know, maybe that's

speculation, but also

maybe God knew

that we would sit here

or somebody would sit there

one day and look

at the Spirit of

God hovering over the

water, over the deep,

in the midst of the

darkness and

think, wow, that's a great

picture of Christ

in our life,

our lives being the

deep in the midst of darkness.

So, okay, but back to

where my first thought

was,

God saying that there was,

there was, yeah, there was

something that was not

good.

Yeah.

Right.

In the midst

of perfection.

And God recognized

it and He

guided us

towards

what would make

it good.

Even better.

Even better.

Man was good.

Yeah.

Man was good.

So, this isn't a

moral question.

It's not that Adam

not having a

woman was evil.

Right.

It was just not good.

Not good.

Because

what does God

desire?

I imagine a lot of things,

but unity.

I was going to say glory.

Yes.

But unity.

Yeah.

Because something that we've,

that we find with

the animals

or all the

creatures, pretty much, is

that a mate,

which is interesting because mate

is also the word

used for having

a mate.

So, there's mating

and then there's

having a mate

kind of,

you can't have them

without the other.

Right.

Yeah.

Saying that bond

is inseparable

from mating,

I guess.

But having a closeness

so

incredible

that it causes

life.

Life.

Yeah.

And why would God create

anything that He doesn't

want to

also do

what He does,

create,

if it's living.

Right.

I mean, everything.

There's mitosis.

There's

Steven,

what is it called when an animal

doesn't need

to,

it doesn't need to

have

basically have sex

mate in order

to reproduce.

I know for

cells, that's mitosis

when they split.

Well, but it's still life

-giving, right?

Right.

And you're still, and there's still.

It's like flowers have this.

Yeah.

Flowers have the

ability to

fertilize most flowers,

I'm pretty sure.

Like you got the pollen

and you got

the,

I forget what they're called, but

they need the bees

in order to

shake the pollen and split

it into the right spot.

Right.

But they got everything they need.

But the good

view, right,

of

all of creations

that it's growing,

it's healthy,

it reproduces,

and there's unity

and harmony and

peace and love

and all that different stuff.

And all those things come

together.

Right.

And God is guiding

that.

Right.

And so if we look

at that picture of

there was something that was not

good before the

fall,

and God guided us

perfectly,

beautifully,

wonderfully,

to a point in which

we would

endure,

if you want to look at it that way,

being put to sleep by

God,

having a rib

taken out, and then

having the thing

or the one

that would make

it good.

What was the thing that wasn't good

though?

The lack of relationship.

The lack of relationship.

That would create more life.

Because there just wasn't

relationship there.

That wasn't good.

But God brought

that about through relationship

with God.

Right.

And so that's - a It's

like a father -son picture.

Yeah.

Right.

It's like your dad

guides you in

the process,

knowing full well that

he's going to be the one

who brings it home.

He's the one that has

you, who's going to catch

you, whatever.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But that's a

perfect example

of what it is

for things not to

be going well,

to see the intent of

God,

to know it,

at least on our

end right now,

to

see

the intent of God,

see see how it plays

out.

And it plays out weird

in a sense,

because God chooses

to put Adam to sleep,

which we know God

speaks and something

is, so doesn't

need to do that.

Take something

out

of Adam,

which he doesn't need,

because again, he can speak

and something

is.

But also he formed Adam

out of the dust.

And, yeah, and he took

something from his own

creation,

which is, again, weird.

Yeah.

You think about all the animals,

all the plants, all the birds of

the air, all the creeping things,

all the animals

and the ocean.

He just...

None of them came

from anything.

We came from the dust.

That's odd.

Yeah.

And then...

And then Eve came from

a rib, his rib.

Why?

What's up with that?

You think that's like...

That's really interesting.

That was not where...

Right.

I know that's not where you're going.

We're related to the dust

and Eve is related

to Adam.

Do you think it's a relationship

thing?

I'm going to make a note about that.

Okay.

And we should come back to

that.

Okay.

Because that's crazy.

But no,

so...

But where I'm

trying to get at is

after

this,

right?

After we have

the good relationship

and

we are good,

everything else is good,

right?

Then there's

the opposite that

happens of things

not being good, right?

Everything falls apart.

Yeah.

Because we don't follow the guidance of

God.

Yeah.

We don't listen.

We don't pay attention.

I mean, everything goes wrong.

Everything that can go wrong...

Did.

...goes wrong.

Yeah.

And God is

trying to say, but

over here,

this is what was supposed

to happen.

But it

didn't.

But

there's still something that

wasn't good over here.

And so I led you out of

that.

If you are faithful,

I'm going to lead you out of

this, right?

Out of sin.

Out of...

Well, yeah, out of sin, out of death,

out of damnation.

And so...

And he even calls out

who is going

to usher that in,

right?

And that's when Adam

named his wife.

Yeah.

I

just...

I didn't realize it.

The pastor said that

recently,

pointed that out.

I've never realized that before.

Eve didn't have a name until

God said, and

from you

will come one

who crushes that as a serpent.

And Adam was like, her name's

Eve.

Right.

So it's...

I think of...

I've always had this

argument,

and I've heard this argument many times

of like, is God,

like you said, malevolent?

Because he allowed sin.

Did he make a defective machine?

But now I'm thinking of it

as

a father

taking the

training wheels off the

bike and allowing

their child to fall

to

get hurt.

And I don't think it's quite that

picture.

I think it's more

of...

We had the opportunity

to not fall,

but given the

circumstances,

it was infinite

possibility

that we wouldn't.

And the only possibility in

which we could never fall

again

being

that he can't

create a

relationship from

nothing without

the choice

to relate.

And we chose not to relate,

and he chose

to

salvage that anyways

in a way that

doesn't rely on us at all

through his son

and

secures us

eternally

is the only

way.

That's a crazy

question.

That doesn't have anything to do with your

family.

It was your crazy question.

But did you finish your

thought though?

Yeah.

Okay.

Sort of.

Do you think

that Adam

felt bad

when he realized

that there was no

suitable mate for him?

Yeah.

Or was it God

that was the

sole acknowledge

of what wasn't

good?

No, it said Adam

realized.

Right.

Adam realized it.

But was it just information or was it

a feeling?

God made us with feelings.

Did he?

Yeah, I think he had FOMO.

Yeah.

Steven, you think he had FOMO?

Or...

I think he gave

us feelings

for sure.

Yeah.

But...

I don't know if I'd call it that.

You don't think Adam was

like, man, all these

animals, they got a

dude.

But the thing is, is that...

And a gal.

You know, a guy and a gal.

Every single one of them.

He was perfect Like, right?

them, to what's wrong with them?

Why did God not create

me that way?

Right.

But he was perfect

and he had God.

So he didn't need.

He probably didn't even feel

the need for anything

else.

But it was God that called

out that he was

alone and that was

not good.

Now, take a step back with

me.

The tree of the knowledge of good

and evil.

Yep.

You're just going to sit there and stare
at me?

Well, think about it.

The tree of the knowledge

of good and evil.

Okay.

In that moment,

Adam possibly could have

looked back and realized,

oh, I was

alone.

That's not good.

I don't like that

feeling.

I don't want that.

And?

And so

maybe to some

degree, because we

experience this

as humans a

lot.

Loneliness?

Loneliness.

What does it cause us to

do?

Stupid things so that we

don't lose

something, so that

we don't end up.

Alone.

I mean, and then again, this is just

speculation.

So maybe in the garden,

when the snake came up,

Adam was like, I don't want to lose

this woman.

Yeah.

So if she's going down, I'm going down

with her.

Or I don't want to lose her.

So I'm not going to

say

no,

because I don't want to feel

alone.

After he eats the fruit,

I would say.

He thought that after he

ate?

Yeah.

To justify what he did.

To justify what he did.

Okay.

I don't think that was his decision making

process.

No, no.

I don't think he had one.

No, no.

But that's crazy.

Because

otherwise,

I don't think Adam

would have recognized,

because it doesn't, I mean, granted, it

doesn't say it, but God

is the one that says

that man

being alone.

He's not good.

He's not good.

I've got to look this up.

Now,

if - Oh, it actually doesn't even

say that Adam realized

it, right?

It's the narrator

is acknowledging.

So the man gave names

to all livestock

and to the birds

of the heavens and to every

beast of the field.

But for Adam,

there was not found

a helper fit for

him.

Yeah.

So maybe he didn't realize

it.

It's possible.

But let's see what he said

when he saw the woman.

This is, this

at last is

bone of my bones

and flesh of my flesh.

She shall be called woman

because she was taken out

of man.

So he knew what God

did.

And he says this at

last.

So maybe he had a

sneaking suspicion,

but no - Well,

he, I mean,

it wasn't like he

wasn't intelligent.

I noticed that

every other creature

had

companionship.

All that to say,

getting into this

actual topic.

Yeah,

which is

- I mean,

what we just laid out is very

weird.

And the question

begs

if the

process of which

God brought about

good,

very good, man and

woman,

that kind of unity, that kind

of relationship, if that

process was weird,

which it was,

I mean,

it feels

to some degree unnecessary.

He just created heaven and earth.

He just created Adam

from the dust,

which again,

not necessary.

Why can't he just create

woman?

So in the guidance

in which this is

happening, because he has

Adam name all

creatures,

do we want

full freedom?

Because - No.

Because the fact of the

matter is that Adam

didn't have a

choice

in

the making

of

Eve.

He did not have a choice.

You have a choice in the making of
anything.

No,

he was given the

opportunity to

name everything.

Where God gave him the opportunity.

Where God gave him the opportunity.

But if we had full

freedom,

would God,

would Adam just say,

no, and that would

be okay?

I don't know.

Because if God recognizes that there

is something wrong,

wouldn't, I mean, in

a sense,

would God not,

I don't know, say, hey,

man,

this thing isn't good.

And then

say, hey, we

can make this better.

I mean, it seems kind

of intrusive,

non -consensual.

It seems very

forced.

It seems like

he's -

Assumptive.

Yeah.

He's pushing

something onto him.

Yeah.

It seems like he's being coerced.

It seems like if

we go down that

rabbit hole, he

had no choice.

Is that wrong?

When God recognizes that

something is wrong,

and then he enacts

his will.

Yeah.

I don't

think so, and I'm gonna

dehumanize

it.

Okay.

That's a great way to start.

I love it when things get

dehumanized.

If a bolt

was by itself,

not a screw, a bolt,

it's got a blunt end, and

it's got the

threading.

What is its purpose?

It doesn't make any sense without

a nut.

And so I

think God looked at

Adam knowing all

along that

Adam was

created to have

a maid.

a helper.

And so it's not as

something because he knew

exactly what Adam was.

And he created Adam.

And so just

because the screw has

never met a nut, or

not screwed, the bolt never

met a nut doesn't mean

it's still not made for

a nut,

you know?!!

But Adam

didn't decide that,

right?

How could he?

He didn't know what a nut was.

Right.

If you ask a bolt,

if it wants a nut,

it was made on the other side of the
factory.

What are you talking about?

No perspective to know

exactly the question you're asking

me.

No idea what you're asking me,

if a bolt could talk.

So do you think

that that idea

can carry

into everything?

Like life as you

and I know it.

Our lives on a daily basis.

Yeah.

I mean,

let's even

take a step back

and

remember how we

said like the more that we

know, the less that we know,

right?

Yeah.

And I mean,

I've said it multiple

times, you know,

that in order to know

something 100%, you have

to apply it to 100 % of

everything else.

And that's not possible.

And it's not possible because

you're you,

not everybody else.

Right.

So if

the things

that God does

is based off of what

is widely based

off of what we don't

know,

then almost

exclusively,

pretty much exclusively,

like we get

little tidbits.

He offers us

perspective.

He offers us

focus.

He guides us to the animals

and lets us name them.

Yeah.

But I mean, we wouldn't

have even known that the animals

were a thing if

he hadn't.

Put them there in front of us.

We didn't know to name anything.

Yeah.

We weren't told to.

Yeah.

We wouldn't, and

quite honestly, I

don't think that

we would want

to if he

didn't tell us,

right?

How do we know to want?

And granted, there are in a - be To fair,

he did say, this

is good food to eat.

Yeah.

He had to get him started with the

basics.

Yeah.

And well, and I mean, there's argument

for the fact that, okay, God

made us in his image.

And so maybe

the idea

of free will is

based in,

okay, if God

knows all

this, then

maybe he implanted

some of that in us, but what did

he implant?

Because God,

he implanted

creativity,

we'll say,

which is for

us - The ability

to create based

on what we know.

Whatever is in front of

us,

or whatever it is that

we do know, which

for Adam would have been

literally what was right in

front of him, and whatever God

said - And he can't imagine

what he doesn't know.

And he can't imagine what he doesn't know.

does He not know Eve, but he does

know something is

possibly missing.

Yeah.

That's, I mean, that's a perfect

picture of our

lives.

It's a good

picture

of our lives

before we're saved

too, because

we

know that

we're meant for more.

God, the Bible says that

God made us with

eternity in our hearts.

And we can feel that when we look at the

night sky, and you see the Milky

Way just spanning across

the entire thing.

You feel so small and

like, you're just awe

-inspired, and

you can't meet it.

So small.

But you

want to live forever.

You want to know it all.

You want to explore it

all.

You want so much more than

what is given,

and you don't want to

die.

No one wants to die.

And yet we have

eternity in our hearts.

What kind of joke is that?

We want to live forever,

but we

can't.

That's,

we don't know.

Like, we know something's missing,

and that we know

we're made for

eternity.

And so we wonder where we're

going after,

and we wonder why

we can't live forever.

We want infinite time,

right?

So we have that feeling that we're

missing something.

Like, Adam felt

like he was missing

something because everybody

else had a companion.

But we don't know for sure

until

Jesus came

and told

us, or

our parents

or whoever was

shared the gospel with us

and showed us

that feeling

of something that's

missing,

here's the peace.

It's your missing

relationship with God.

You're on your

own, and that's not good.

You need to,

you're estranged from your father,

from the creator of the whole

universe, who is

eternal and made you

eternal.

And that's why you have eternity in

your heart.

Because you will live forever,

and you should not live

forever apart from God,

because that's hell.

And we don't know

that for sure

or what to do about

it until we're

shown and guided

to it.

But we know something's missing.

Should we end in there so See you you're
again, getting

tired.

Tyre?

It is

1252 y

'all.

We had so much more to

say and decay.

There's so much.

So, you know,

so to conclude the

question,

do we actually

want freedom?

Full freedom.

I think a lot of us do

because we have

eternity in our hearts.

But if we knew

what that entailed,

I don't think we would.

Yeah.

I compare it

myself to like,

when I go to a restaurant, there's too
many

choices.

I'm very indecisive and I

get stressed out.

Mm hmm.

Well,

but there's this idea

with knowing

that, you know, when you

know you're

responsible.

And so it's

not so much knowing like

all the options,

right?

So for instance, you know,

you know, you go to

McDonald's

and oh, I have

a lot of options.

It's not so much knowing

that there are a lot of options

like, okay, great.

Yeah, it's knowing,

okay, I have to make a decision

and I have to make that

decision quick.

Mm hmm.

Because I have somewhere to be.

Mm hmm.

And that somewhere to be is going

to affect my

relationship with my

parents or my

job.

Sure.

Or whatever.

And that's going to affect

my financial situation.

And that's going to affect

blah, blah, blah, blah,

I know all these

details.

And as I follow that

deeper and deeper and

deeper and deeper, there are

things that I have to do.

One of those things is right in

front of me and I just have to make a

decision.

Mm hmm.

Right.

And you know, that's,

that's making something

seem really big.

That's really not

that big.

But in reality,

again, going back to the ripple

effects of our decisions

of everything

that we do,

God wants us

to think of it

in terms of

him and

his purposes.

And so everything truly

is tied, when

dedicated to

him, it truly

is tied to

eternity.

Because also,

what we do here on earth

as believers

carries

into

eternity.

And we don't even, he doesn't even give

a full explanation.

He just says,

he just leaves that this is what happens.

Yeah.

And we're all like, you

will build

up treasures in

heaven.

What the heck does that mean?

Yeah.

But and even

gives like, it's based off of

what you do.

Good luck.

Bye.

Yeah.

It's like,

I know I have a

million questions.

First off,

like,

workspace theology is wrong, but

workspace

reward

in

heaven?

That doesn't make any sense.

I mean, it's pretty cool.

I mean, it's great.

I mean, that's cool.

That's awesome.

But how does this fit into your

thoughts of do we

want full freedom?

It's

that even

still,

like God is guiding

us,

right, to

the right

things.

And he's put us in the

situation to where

we can make those

right decisions,

right?

But he's allowing

us, right?

He's allowing

the not

right to be

present so that we

can see it and

then rely on him.

So that he gets the glory.

So that he gets the glory.

Because there cannot be glory

without those

who can acknowledge

it.

Well, and pain

as a result of

the fall is an

alarm bell.

Extreme pain.

Extreme.

It was pain before the fall.

Right.

But I'm saying like,

anything that feels wrong is

an alarm going off,

pointing us to

that's not right.

This is right.

God is right.

And that's how

God made the things.

Right?

For all of

it, you know,

you take anything,

you put it in the wrong place,

it's going to die, or it's going

to fall apart faster

or whatever,

you know.

And there are places where

we're not meant to

be.

Yeah, bottom of the ocean

for one.

Right.

And like,

quite

practically,

and

spiritually

and mentally,

physically,

whatever,

God made us in America

for a reason.

And we don't need to know

until we need to know.

And he'll make it known to us.

Yeah.

And like, electricity.

Like, there's a million reasons

why it was made, but

one of them is this.

Yeah.

Okay.

So what you said about...

Man, so it's a

lot of what we both said.

But I think that's the point is,

when we ask the question

of do we actually want

full freedom,

or like, do we have free will?

I think it's focusing on the

wrong thing.

We're focusing ourselves

on ourselves.

Yeah.

When the entire

point is God

in His

glory.

And why And why are we

here?

The glorifying of him.

Right.

Ultimately.

Yeah.

Why did God

make Adam

alone and then

guide him to the

realization that he was alone?

I didn't even factor in the fact that he

made God or that he...

Whoa.

Yikes.

That he made Adam

alone

to

then...

To show him that he was

alone.

And then

fulfill that

desire that he gave

Adam.

Yeah.

Or maybe there was no desire.

But to

like give

him his helper

and obviously he

was excited.

You know?

And God got the glory,

the ultimate glory because of that.

Right.

Because he brought him to the

realization so that

he could break out into

poem.

One of the first poems,

if not the first poem

ever created.

Glorifying God.

And it only happened because of that

recipe.

Like God creating all

of creation before man

is glorifying enough.

But when you

bring in

humans

who

have

enough free

will

to,

I guess, enough smarts,

enough understanding,

enough the ability

to experience,

let's say,

that allows

God's glory to

be maximized.

Which is the entire point.

Right.

And so that

is mind blowing to me.

Like that solves so many things

in my personal life.

Yeah.

Right now.

It's like, why am I not

married right now when I wanted to be back

when I was 19?

For God's glory.

I don't know why.

And in fact, don't need to know

why.

And in fact, he knew.

Yeah.

And

also

the fact that he put that

desire in you.

And then he's led

me or allowed me

to go through all these horrible

experiences that I've had.

Yeah.

That's all in

guidance to

this

ultimate

moment of,

oh my God.

Wow.

And to

take it even further,

when

you have

kids,

if you

want.

I'm not putting God in the

box.

If you have kids,

that experience

is going to

inform how you raised

them.

Yeah.

And God did that on purpose.

Yeah.

It does nothing without a

reason.

Right.

I mean, I can see that in my career.

Yeah.

Like, I didn't

choose to take the path

that I did.

I just saw the

next right step.

You saw what was right in front of you.

And sometimes I saw the

good choice and I didn't make

it.

Yeah.

But God factored all that

in.

Yeah.

And even in that way, I could look

backwards and see,

oh, even when

I'm stupid,

even when I sin,

God is in full

control.

Yeah.

And still brings

me good gifts

I don't deserve

and

fully glorifies

Himself in the

past,

the present, and the

future.

It's all God's glory.

Safe.

Yeah.

So do we want ultimate freedom?

Please no.

If I had ultimate

freedom, I'd be dead

right now.

I...

Like experiencing everything.

Sure.

Like the heights of

luxury

to

the depths

of wisdom to

the...

Pedestal spare.

What would you call it?

The peaks of

pleasure sexually

to be

explicit.

And He finds

nothing good in all of

it.

Yeah.

Nothing ultimate in all of it.

And His final

conclusion,

if I can

say that,

is essentially

our

purpose is to

enjoy what God has put

in front of us.

And that He goes as far as

to say that we will be

judged for

if we don't

enjoy what

is given

to us as

best we can.

So

think

of a father

giving

their

kid a toy

and the kid just sits

there and grumbles and

does not play with it.

You think that father is going to give him

another cool toy

later, you know?

None of us.

I mean, probably will, but...

Probably will, but...

Right.

I mean, there's

a problem with that.

Yeah.

Right?

And so there is judgment

for how we enjoy life.

And that

almost

takes the

idea of like, do I want free

will out of the question?

Mm -hmm.

Because I'm just here for

the ride, man.

Yeah.

And I know it's going to be a good one.

Well, and it's

interesting because

you made me think of

Paul.

You know, he says, I

know how...

To be content.

To be content with

everything.

Mm -hmm.

Not I set

myself up to

be content,

whatever.

With this passive income.

But in...

Right.

But, But, you know, he knows

how to...

to be

broke,

broke down

or at

the height of heights

because he was just,

he was brought through

it.

And, you know, but

he can do all things through

Christ.

He can do,

he can only do

all things

through Christ.

Yeah.

Wow.

Which is the same

thing really

as Solomon is saying,

because

all the things that he

experienced and he turns

around and he's like, ah.

The only good thing is

to revel

in God's glory.

Yeah.

To enjoy the moment.

And recognizing that,

I mean, Solomon of all people probably

recognized that God

brought him through that so that he

could share this

wisdom.

Yeah.

That's why he wrote

at all.

That's why he wrote Proverbs.

That's why he wrote any of it.

Portions.

Because he knew that

this information

was pertinent.

Yeah.

I'm reading,

I've listened

through all of Proverbs

recently and

then I'm just sitting there and

I'm just like,

I need.

Whatever it gets to.

Just all of the, well it's the first time

that I like listened to

it.

I'm like, wow, I

actually,

this makes a whole heck

of a lot of sense to me right

now.

When you read it all together?

Uh -huh.

When you read it all together?

Well,

like before

reading any bit

of it, I'd be like, this

is all poetry.

Like I.

Really?

Well, it just

felt so

mumbled

together.

But I can remember

thinking back and I'm like,

okay, yeah,

cool, whatever.

And I'm a poet too.

So it's like, I should be able

to understand this, but I really

feel like, again, I feel like

God has just been

holding that back

and saying, I don't

want you to really

get this yet.

We're going to wait.

And then, because it started

with Ecclesiastes.

Ecclesiastes was like, ah, I don't want to

read it.

It's a depressing book.

It's not.

It's good.

And it's not.

And it's so good

and it's so

edifying.

But the day that I

realized what it

really was about

was huge.

And it helped me with my

suffering so much.

It helped me with all of

existence.

And in

chapter 12,

when he says,

keep God's commandments.

Just like, that's what this whole book is

about.

Wait, wait, wait.

Wait a second.

We just went 11

chapters.

That's the conclusion.

And we're concluding with.

Wow.

And, and I mean,

think about reading works,

you know, we have to read the

whole thing.

We have to trudge through numbers.

We have to trudge through

Leviticus.

We have to get through

these boring

books.

We have to, you know,

somehow get to the end

of Revelation.

And then we've read the whole book.

And then we have to read again.

And that's God,

that's how

God intended

it.

All right.

This is mind boggling in so many

ways.

This is why.

Do you think we should pick this up later?

We should pick this up later.

Okay.

Should we pray out?

Should we?

What do we do here?

Yeah, I'll close this out.

And then, I don't know.

Read us out?

If you guys want to, one of

you guys want to pray us out or I

can pray us out or

Steven's been

praying us out lately.

So are you?

Mm -hmm.

You said you want to.

Yeah, you did say that.

That's fine.

I don't know.

I'm always surprised by

each episode and

how it goes.

It's never how I expect.

Yeah.

I was not expecting any

of these conversations.

We talked about time.

And it's interesting

how it always seems

to like fit

together.

Yeah.

And like I was

intending on talking about

relationships

when we

went through Genesis

2 and 3, but

just

the direction that you brought

it.

And then it's funny how

it just turned around and

went right back to the

free will thing.

And I really feel

like there's just a perfect

through line with

all of that

because of the

intent of God's

creation, right?

But… And there's so much good

stuff that we just

glanced over.

I tried to take as many notes

as I could.

chapters three We're in, dude.

Yeah.

That's the nature

of this podcast

of perfumed

decay.

That's the nature of

perfume.

Yeah.

It never runs

out of its sweet aroma.

Yeah.

And it's interesting.

Yeah.

It's the idea that yes,

we're getting further away

from it, but

it's still

in the air.

Pause.

It's still there.

You smell that?

You just have to take

it in.

It's good stuff.

And yeah.

I mean…

It's a

good perfume

is something that

isn't overwhelming.

It's notable.

It's distinct.

But you have to stop and

smell.

Yeah.

You have to pause for a second.

Well, and God… Stop and smell

the roses.

That describes He himself describes
himself as a still

small voice.

That's not, you know, he's not trying to

be loud and boisterous.

He's trying to

say, stop,

listen.

Yeah.

So this week we should

pause and smell the,

smell the flowers.

Smell the flowers, smell, I mean,

taken

the

perfume of God's Word

and taken His

creation.

Do it daily.

Really?

Yeah,

absolutely.

Before the decay of our

bodies,

of life.

Of life.

Of life,

just

overwhelmed.

And we hope that

if you're listening to

this, that you've been edified

by these conversations

and entertained.

We try to have

fun.

We have been,

as Daniel pointed out

to me earlier, that

we've been fairly

serious

the past

several episodes.

Yeah.

But I really think that's

just natural due

to the nature of what we've

been.

Our topics.

Yeah.

Our topics and where

we've been

in Scripture.

And

I

think at some point that'll level

out a little bit more.

But you know, ultimately

this is us just

dealing with the Word of

God, honestly,

openly,

and doing the same

thing with life and

all the questions that

we have and all the

questions that are present.

And wherever our

conversation brings us is,

I think, in a lot of

ways kind of where we're going to end

up.

Because I don't know,

because it

is edifying

when we're at the end of it and

we're like, wow.

Look at that journey.

We came all this

way.

And probably at the beginning, I mean, I

was like, oh, I don't know how this

episode's going to go.

You know, it's late.

Yeah.

You know, when you're so

tired, you're tearing up over there.

Yeah.

I'm not.

Do I look like I'm tearing up?

A little bit.

You look like you're tearing up.

My eyes are dry.

Fight me.

I'm not tearing up.

But it's

okay.

You can cry.

I can cry.

But we hope,

yeah, this

is edifying.

As much as it is to

us.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That would be awesome if it

was to all of our listeners

as much as it is to

us.

Yeah.

But I don't think that's possible.

It's all mine.

I'm just kidding.

If you have

any

topics, any

scripture that you'd like us

to go through,

I know we want to have

guests

on the podcast and

I think we're going to ask

them to come up with their

own scripture that

they'd like us to talk about

as a

group and whatever

topics as

well.

Because ultimately, this podcast

isn't just for us to go

straight through the Bible, obviously,

because we talked about other

topics.

But we can.

But we can.

If we never have an audience

that suggests anything, we

will.

And it's not just for

us to talk about

what we want to talk about necessarily.

It's about us

just

allowing,

doing life.

Yeah.

Doing life and just

allowing God to

bring to us what it

is that He wants us to.

Which I have no idea.

Which we have

no idea.

I'm sure it will

be glorious.

Yeah.

And I mean,

I don't necessarily know if

anything is really going to

stop us.

I don't think it's meant

to.

But yeah,

so and leave us

criticisms, constructive

criticisms would

be nice.

Try to make me cry.

I'll definitely cry.

Try and make Him cry.

I'm soulless.

Yeah.

Any comments?

Anything?

Because ultimately, we

do want to make this better.

And we are making it better.

In different ways.

We want to be as

enjoyable

to you

guys as it is to

us.

Yeah.

We want to somehow

get that across.

Yeah.

I feel like we can do that

better.

Well.

So help us.

Yeah.

And we want you guys to be a part

of the discussion.

I know there's one podcast I listened

to where people were like, oh

man, I feel like I'm just hanging

out with my best friends.

It's like, dude, you're just

listening to them have a

conversation.

But I'm sitting there listening to

the exact same podcast.

I'm like, no, I get that.

I get it.

And I kind of hope that

that's not, I don't kind of hope.

I definitely hope that that's the

effect.

It can be.

And maybe you're, you just

have conversations with your friends

like this and that's, this is just

the same experience.

And if that's the case, I think

that's our audience.

Yeah.

That's exactly what we're looking

for.

So yeah, let

us know.

All of it.

All of it.

All the things.

And.

Email us.

We do have an email now.

Oh, we have an email.

Oh,

sweet.

Perfume.

Dot D dot

EK

E K

A Y

at gmail .com.

We didn't buy our own

domain.

Sorry.

We're starting small here.

We should buy our own

domain.

At some point.

At some point maybe.

I mean, dude, we could, And once once we

actually start releasing things.

Maybe,

mostly.

But for now and in the future,

we're going to maintain that email.

So perfume

.d

.uk

at gmail .com.

Beautiful.

I love it.

All right.

Well, we hope you will join

us next episode.

And I'm going to

go to sleep, pray us out.

And then go to sleep.

And then go to sleep.

All right.

Lord, we

thank You for

being

present with us

today

through Your

Word.

Ultimately,

if we ever question whether or not

You're communicating with us,

we just have to look

at Your Word and

recognize that You

did, You

are, and You will be.

Because Your Word is

eternal.

Your Word is life.

Your Word,

the Bible is

the living Word of

God.

It is Your

living Word.

And

we

thank You that we

get to have

it, to

perfume our

experience.

We talk about

this concept frequently

because

so much of

it is us trying to spray

it everywhere so that

it

feels and smells

right.

But ultimately,

we cannot

cover up our

sin on our own.

We cannot get

rid of it.

We cannot get rid of

consequences.

This life that we are living,

we are here to

live.

And You are guiding us through

it with Your Word.

And that aroma will

not disappear just

because we make a

wrong turn or just because

we choose not to look

at it

or smell

it, if you will.

So Lord, I pray we do not

take this time for

granted.

This fellowship,

this podcast,

I pray that when

we start releasing

that our

audience doesn't take this for

granted, that this is,

you know, this is a gift from You,

this is a blessing from You, that

we can be edified

by this

experience.

And so I pray over

this podcast, I pray

over those

that do listen, I pray

over each of us

here, that You

continue to sanctify

us, that You continue to

reveal to us the truth

of Your Word,

and that we

can also rightly

and honestly deal

with the decay of

our lives,

of stepping

a little bit away

from the perfume,

so that we can

recognize

where You actually

are in it.

And I pray this all in Your

name.

Amen.

Good stuff, it's a wrap.

See you all next time.