I thrive in chaos.

Me too, dog.

We're about to cry.

Mostly because we're streaming already.

We're streaming.

We're streaming right now.

Are you trying to fill in the gap?

The music gap?

The music gap?

intro The gap?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, we could,

you know what?

I'll put it in post.

Look, let's just pretend we're hearing

it right now.

Yeah.

Usually we do that.

Wait, do

the over to

you.

Back.

Wow.

Ridiculous.

Wow.

Good times, man.

This is, this is an

episode.

Yeah.

So far it is

a perfect

episode.

I would agree.

Because nothing is

different.

Nothing is wrong.

Not even a little bit.

Not even a, not even a tab.

Not even the most

minuscule amount you could make.

And there's a part of me that's like,
maybe we

should just keep it going.

Let the audience

question

like what's different.

Like if they can't figure it out, then
it's on

them.

You know,

actually there isn't

anything different.

Yeah.

It's actually exactly the same.

This is how we do it every single week.

Yeah.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah.

This is not his gas

lighting voice.

I was waiting for you to see.

Thank you for saying that.

Where's my pencil?

It's probably

up there.

Big wood pencil.

Got it.

Oh yeah.

Over here stuff.

I forgot long.

This camera follows me.

That's crazy.

Well, I guess we're

starting.

Yes.

This is episode 12

of the perfume

to DK podcast

with

your hosts Michael and

Daniel

and

Michael and Daniel,

Stephanie,

Jimmy.

Wait, you got that mixed

up.

Stephanie.

Try again.

Daniel.

Stephen.

Yeah.

Unfortunately can't make it.

Mika.

I got it.

We got it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Stephen can't be here,

but

he will be here in

spirit and I'm

especially sad that he's not here for

this episode because.

He would have loved this one.

He would have loved this one.

Oh.

We are in

Genesis four.

We're talking about some pretty
interesting

stuff.

But before we do

that,

Daniel,

that is a huge

pencil.

It is.

And it's not going to fit behind your ear.

Well,

hold on.

Hold on.

Let me let's see

what yours looks like a huge

cigar.

This year is the biggest one.

Okay, so I should be able to balance.

This is my big

ear.

Yeah, I mean kids made fun of

me.

There we go.

Like Nemo and his little fin.

No, like Dumbo.

Big fin Dumbo.

Yeah, man.

Wow.

So kids used to make fun of me.

Yeah.

Now look at

me.

Yeah.

Making fun of you even

more.

I can't hear him though.

That's true.

No headphones.

No headphones.

Look Ma, no headphones.

Look Ma, no headphones.

You want to explain.

I can ride my podcast with no

headphones.

You want to explain

to the

audience why we don't have any

headphones right now?

Because we don't need headphones.

We're too good for them.

I would agree.

Also what headphones?

We've never worn headphones.

We've never worn headphones.

So and we're actually not explaining

anything that's

different this episode.

As you can see,

this episode

is called

Sevenfold.

Hey, smart.

Genesis 4,

19 through 24.

That's where we're going to be going
through.

Yeah, dude.

In the perfumed section.

But before we start,

before we get into the nitty gritty.

How was your day?

How was your week?

Oof.

I want you to go first.

You want me to go first.

My day slash

week has been

great.

Good.

It's been normal.

Good's been, you

know, nothing crazy.

However,

my boss is insane.

Excuse me.

My supervisor is insane.

Do we want to broadcast

that?

Because she.

Oh no.

Told me that she

wants me to be at the

top.

Be above her.

Something like that.

No, she just

said that she wants me to

go to the top.

She wants me to be at

the top.

And jump?

Yeah, absolutely.

At the top of the building.

That's kind of scary to you.

Maybe you should.

My legs are currently

broken.

And I actually

can't work there anymore.

Can't even get in the door.

Workers' comp actually.

I can't drive.

They have to transport

me.

They have to pick me up like via

Amazon.

Amazon?

Yeah, should be back and forth.

I have to ship

myself.

Sit in the box, you know,

in a wheelchair.

It's really awkward to the

guy.

Next day delivery.

Just rip it open.

Oh, hey, Michael.

Hey.

I'm in an envelope

somehow.

Yeah, that's crazy.

No, you're beat up.

That's wild.

Worse than being a vegetable

being an envelope.

What?

Don't read into that, I don't know.

No.

You can't, there's

no letter in it.

Anyways,

but yeah, she's

talked to me about that

and she's like, you

just understand a lot

and you're good at your

job and all this different stuff.

I'm like, wow,

I really appreciate that

but I'm trying really hard to

not be

seen.

I'm trying to be

under the radar.

I'm trying to just be

a regular dude

just here to make a paycheck

but I'm really bad at that.

Yeah, you are, you kind

of suck.

Because

obviously

them having

me train somebody

and then, you know.

To replace you?

No, no,

So I can fire you?

No.

Yeah, I want you

to be at the top of

the list of

people that's looking for

a job.

No.

Yeah, just to help us but

it's so

funny.

And I even told her that too.

I'm like, yeah,

I kind of want to not do

that but I know that I

can't do that because

I see

things that need to

change and if

I understand them, I know them,

kind of have a responsibility to

go after it.

So, I mean, that was nice

but it was also like,

I'm failing

horribly at mine.

Because you just wanted to blend into

the background?

Yeah,

but I'm not capable of doing

that, whatever.

No, you're not.

You're just too good.

Too good.

Too pretty.

Well, I don't know about that.

That's true.

You stand out

and

honestly, you should probably be

using that as a

model to the strut.

I should be a model.

Yeah.

I mean, you know,

I could have been a model.

No, we're not

doing

that.

Oh my gosh.

Nice.

The pointing at the camera was good.

Probably switched over.

Yeah.

But hey, this is a

standing podcast now.

Check that out.

Yeah, I don't know if the

camera's gonna

look good.

I'm looking down on you

all.

That's scary.

You're like a giant now.

As it should be.

So how was your week?

I actually,

this

whole setup

is kind of

nuts.

What's it up?

What?

My Mac in front of me is

distracting me.

Like it's doing this

auto scene

switching.

Yeah.

That's actually where Steven is.

He's doing the scene switching for us.

Oh.

Yeah.

He is the AI.

He is the AI.

We took his brain

and upgraded

it.

Put it in a jar.

He can actually see now.

We put it in a clear

jar, but we're not gonna show it

because

legal

reasons.

Right.

Because we're actually

joking and

Steven's still alive.

Yeah, in a jar.

Yeah.

Steven, if he can hear us.

Which he can, he can hear everybody.

Yeah.

We put an amplifier on

him, kind of like Professor

X.

Well, he is the internet

now.

He is the internet.

Yeah.

That makes sense.

I mean, you know, he couldn't

see before.

Why does he need to see now?

He sees everything now.

Oh, he sees everything.

It's kind of like found footage

because he sees it through like cameras,

like the government.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

So he's on the live stream

right now.

Although he's not.

Thanks for listening,

Steven.

And watching.

The all seeing eye.

He's actually watching through this

camera.

And controlling our, whoa.

Which for some reason is not working.

Yeah.

That's probably why it's not working.

Maybe.

Oh, cause he's in it.

He's controlling it.

Or brain powers.

It's more like he doesn't want us

to use his camera.

You know what's really weird?

Hearing us not

in the headphones.

What do you mean?

We've never worn headphones.

So how's your week?

It's been pretty good, man.

Yeah.

Pretty good.

Well, the

ending was good.

So

Thursday,

I don't know whether this is about
Thursdays

and me freaking out.

Two weeks ago, you and I

and Steven.

So mean.

You, me and Steven went to

a canes for a

midnight snack.

And we

sat

there eating our

canes.

And just, I

absolutely was freaking

out

about,

oh my gosh.

Yeah, that works.

Yeah, man.

I wasn't even trying.

See how long it stays.

And I was just freaking

out the entire time.

Your ADHD brain cannot

not handle that pencil being

there.

The scene switcher might

as well be in your face.

I can still see the scene

switcher flashing even

though I like lowered the

laptop lid.

Oh gosh.

Anyway,

so I was freaking out that

Thursday.

I mean, you know everything that

happened here.

I can't be as flamboyant because the

pencil is balancing.

Okay, this is weird.

For

audio listeners only,

I'm balancing a big

like wood pencil.

Big,

heavy

branch

pencil.

It's like, it's like six inches

long.

Yeah.

And it's balancing

on my big ear.

And I can't turn my

head at all.

Yeah.

Or be expressive in

any kind of way.

So I just got to do it through

my voice.

Yeah.

Which I've noticed

in the

editing,

which I've done a lot

of this week.

Yeah.

I don't actually express

a lot through my voice.

So maybe I'll try.

Oh,

maybe I'll give it a shot.

That'll be shot at each shot

this week.

Probably not though.

No.

Anyways, who I

am.

A few Thursdays ago, freaking

out.

I was freaking out.

It was actually about

religious stuff.

Yeah.

I can't quite remember though.

Can you help me out?

I was like,

I was on the ledge

about something.

I was probably just complaining about

how God

doesn't seem to listen

or seem

to come through.

Yeah.

Which has been a pattern of mind

for the past

year.

Yeah.

But that happened on a

Thursday.

And then this last Thursday, I told my

boss

that

I

can't handle the

workload anymore.

I'm wearing seven

hats

on top

of the giant pencil I'm balancing

on my ear.

And I just can't

do it any more.

Yeah.

And

I was

scared to send that message

honestly.

I thought

maybe

this

is the path to the end

kind of thing.

But honestly,

he's like,

let's jump on a one on

one

in a couple

hours.

Yeah.

I was like, I don't want to

do that.

Dang it, man.

I was doing so big too.

He likes you.

It fell for him.

Ah, yeah.

It fell.

It did fell for me.

It did fell.

Yeah.

Got it.

And

I'm

just holding it like I'm going to write
for

all the audio listeners.

It's not even funny.

Why am I saying?

All right.

Putting this pencil down.

Okay.

One on one.

The one on one.

Yeah.

Was great.

He basically took all the

seven hats and

took six of them

and put them in

a box.

And he said that,

yeah,

those hats are gonna

get lost.

This analogy is falling apart.

Yeah, those clients are going to

escalate.

But that's not your problem.

Yeah.

Anymore.

And that's on my authority.

And I was like,

yeah, like

God.

And so like, I don't know how

to describe.

I mean, okay, I could describe

the kind of stress that I've been on there

for the past

eight

months or so.

I clenched my teeth

and grind my teeth for absolutely no

reason.

My shoulders carry

a massive tension

constantly.

If I try to

rest, I find that I'm

clenching my fist to the point where

my knuckles are turning white.

And I

don't

mean to.

So conscious.

And even if I try

not to,

I still end up doing it.

And so it's kind of a scary amount

of stress.

And that's probably

why I'm running into

these

last

few Thursdays

I've been freaking

out.

We call it the Thursday night thriller.

Yeah.

So just to be clear

for the audience,

I am

not

doubting God's existence

or that he

shows up for me at

all.

I just have emotional

moments every now and

then.

Which lasts...

What if?

How long do they last?

Well, last year it lasted

months.

Yeah.

This last week,

doing a lot better.

It lasted like

five days in total.

And then like the peak

was that night.

Yeah.

I mean, walk me off the ledge.

Or talk me off the ledge.

Yeah.

I didn't walk you.

I'm like, hey buddy, let's go.

Yeah.

We both fell off.

Yeah.

Because your boss told you

to.

Yeah.

She wanted you at be the to top.

And I did everything that

anybody tells me to

do.

Yeah.

I like jumping.

Jumping to conclusions.

Okay.

That was fun.

Yeah.

So...

So yeah, that was my week.

It's great.

The stress is

finally

-ish

leaving.

Yeah.

It's probably gonna take a long time to

actually go away.

Because I still have like a whole bunch of

personal stress.

from Yeah.

trauma,

whatever that is.

Sure no one can relate to

that at all.

absolutely No, not.

No, no, especially none

of our listeners are human.

No, yeah, they're all

automatons.

Oh, they're all

AI.

They're like, wow, look at that human.

They're like the OG AI,

the ones

that were made out of watches,

like watch parts.

Oh, yeah.

That's why I said automatons.

Right, yeah, yeah.

Like in that one

movie.

Yeah, I just cannot

remember.

Not even a little bit.

Anyways,

Steven, how was your week?

The accuracy of that.

Well, he's probably gonna come on

chat.

He's probably gonna hate us.

He's like, why do I ever do a podcast

with these jerks?

Honestly, yeah.

We should have just like

not said Steven

wasn't here.

See how many people actually.

You just say that's

rude.

Yeah, I agree.

And it's a that's right.

That's rude.

Maybe we shouldn't be rude.

Maybe,

yeah, maybe I suck.

Probably do.

Maybe that's the point.

Maybe that is the point.

Maybe that's a quote from

episode two.

Is that a quote from episode two?

That is a quote from episode two.

I bet.

You know what I love?

I love that we're

gonna be listening to the episodes

and we're gonna be dropping

little bits and pieces

of the old episodes.

Just because it's there.

And no one's gonna

care.

No one's gonna notice except for me

when I add

it.

I don't know.

And you when you listen.

Well, the podcast that I listen to,

it's like, you know, they have all these

inside jokes and people are latching

onto them.

And they're like, this is kind of crazy

that you guys.

Did it fine.

Wait,

no.

Oh, wait, was this yes?

Yeah, it was yes.

Oh, yes.

No.

No.

Wait, was it?

No.

No, it was out.

It was up.

For yes.

Out for no.

We gotta watch that episode.

We still don't know what's going

on.

Neither does anybody.

We're on drugs, but.

We should probably get into our episode
though.

Do we have an episode?

We have an episode.

What is today's episode?

Today's episode

is brought to you

by.

Amazon.

Shipping your podcast

or directly do

his job.

Shipping your host.

Straight to your doorstep.

Amen woman.

Did you just say a woman?

I hate you.

Great segue.

Get my of out mind, dude.

Into the podcast episode.

Before we get into perfume,

there's something that we need to do.

Pray?

Pray.

You wanna pray for us?

Sure.

Great.

I was actually thinking about that.

Yeah.

We should have a conversation offline.

Okay.

Cause I'm thinking we

should, you know what?

We're gonna have this conversation right
now.

Okay.

I want to pray before we do

the podcast.

Okay.

Before we even go live.

Interesting.

Kind of like a.

Well, we should anyways.

But you're saying instead of praying on
the podcast.

Oh, okay.

In addition to.

That's right.

Yeah.

Never enough prayer.

Yeah.

Do you wanna pray?

You don't wanna pray?

Of course I wanna I pray.

ask you to pray.

But do you wanna pray more than

I wanna pray?

I.

Look.

Do you wanna pray or do you not wanna
pray?

I really wanna pray, dawg.

You pray.

You pray.

It is yours.

But I can tell you.

I can see it in your

eyes.

I can tell you're so spiritual.

All right, I'll pray.

Great.

All right.

Dear God, please

help

Michael to be more

spiritual so that he wants to pray,

wants to talk to you.

But yeah, thank you for this

day.

Thank you for the week that you gave

us.

And please

help

us to,

when we're reading your word,

to be able to take it seriously,

to dig into it

in

a way that we see things

that we've never seen before.

Help us

to

look

at your word with wonder

and awe

and

curiosity.

Please blow our minds

today.

Please help us to

be

good

representatives of you.

And if there's anything that we say

that's out

of pocket, would you

just

let

people forget it,

even though it's the internet?

So God, you

know the mission

that we're on with this podcast.

Would you

search

our hearts,

me and Michael and Steven

when he's here?

Search our hearts

and

help us

be the host that we need to be

for this

audience that we're trying to

reach.

And please help our audience to

be

brought to wonder

in and curiosity

and awe.

like we so

often are on this podcast, God.

We praise You, we love You,

and we say all these things in Your name.

Amen.

Amen.

All right, well, we are

in Genesis

4,

starting in verse

19,

and I will read this

for

us.

Cool.

And Lamech took

for himself two

wives.

The name of the one was

Ada,

and the name of the other was

Zilla.

And Ada gave birth to

Jabal.

He was the father of those who

live in tents and

have livestock,

and his brother's name was

Jubal.

He was the father of all

those who played the lyre

and pipe.

As for Zilla,

she gave birth.

She also gave birth

to Tubal Cain,

the forger of all

implements of bronze

and iron,

and the sister of Tubal

Cain was

Nama.

And Lamech said to his

wives, Ada and Zilla,

hear my voice, you

wives of Lamech, give

ear to my word, for

I have killed a man for striking

me, and a boy

for wounding me.

Oh, if Cain

is avenged

sevenfold, then

Lamech,

77 fold.

When Ada wouldn't...

Oh, yeah.

That's where we stop.

Yeah.

Did you say verse

23 correctly?

Because mine says,

I've killed a man

for wounding me, a

young man for striking me.

Is that what yours says?

Mine says...

The opposite.

For I've killed a man for striking

me, and a boy for wounding

me.

Weird.

Yours could still be interpreted

as a list of

two different people.

But...

Yeah.

That's crazy.

But starting in...

We talked a little bit about

verse 19.

Mm -hmm.

I

remember

trying to focus on

that specific

sin

of...

Two wives.

Two wives.

Which is a sin

because

God

definitely...

The Bible definitely talks about

being

the husband of

one wife.

It does in the New Testament.

The New Testament, yeah.

It doesn't in the Old Testament,

and as much

as

just like

directly saying

it.

Yeah.

But it does

say it

in

Genesis,

or rather instead of say it,

it does show it in

Genesis.

Yeah.

Right.

And I mean, we see

throughout the Bible that

the problem

was having

two wives.

Yeah.

And over and over

and over again,

and

having concubines and

whatever.

It's like, and

God

didn't create

Adam,

Eve, and

some

other

woman

for

Adam to have in the

garden.

It's like, it's just no.

And then directly after that,

after the creation of the woman says

that

man is to leave his

father and mother to

be bound to

his wife.

One.

One wife.

Yeah.

Not wives.

So...

Also, that'd be kind of weird.

Well,

I guess God could have made more

than one Eve,

but I was thinking like, what if they
started

with Adam and Eve, and then

Adam, when had

relationships with his

kids?

That's weird.

So just by design

there...

We don't like that at all.

I don't like that.

Yeah.

Even a little bit.

Just by design,

that show and tell

should have been

enough.

Yeah.

Like to be

David or

Solomon and look back

on

Adam

and

think to yourself,

would it be weird

if

Adam

had both

Eve and

of his daughters?

Crazy.

Well, but

it's interesting you say

that, but

that

omission

of

saying

specifically how many wives you

should have or

kind of

about sexual

promiscuity,

some people will point to that and be
like, oh,

well, it doesn't say it explicitly.

So maybe they didn't

think about that or maybe

whatever.

And it's not that it's

omitted because

it's

not

okay,

but because

they just didn't

have that or they didn't care or

whatever.

And it's like, you just have

to read a few more chapters.

No,

they knew.

It existed.

It happened.

I don't know though.

I think

maybe Leviticus and

Deuteronomy talk

about

being

like a,

How how does New the New Testament call

it?

a one man,

one wife,

husband,

right?

Yeah, I think so.

Something like that.

Well, the idea

of adultery is

to

have relations with someone

that isn't your

wife.

Or your husband.

Yeah.

But what if you

are a polygamist

and

both

your wives are

agreed with it?

Or they've just been forced

into it because that's how the culture

runs.

Like Jacob, Leah and Rachel.

Two sisters?

That's weird.

Come on, dog.

No, thank you.

Well, okay.

To be fair, it wasn't

necessarily his fault.

Yeah, it was.

He worked another seven years

and married Rachel.

Yeah, because he wanted Rachel.

He got duped.

Well, he got duped.

The dad said, hey,

here's my other daughter.

If you want the one that you actually

want, work

another seven years.

But still, he got

duped.

He should have stopped.

Well, that sucks.

The first time, shame

on me.

Second time, shame on

you.

No, the first time, shame on

you.

Second time, shame on me.

So, no, I guess you're right.

Third time.

Shame on you again.

Fourth time, shame on me.

What is it?

I think

there's

an artist that's

got this ground side.

Where he's like,

what does he say?

I have an idea.

F the P sign.

Oh.

F the P sign, something,

something.

And then I'm gonna

rain the bullets

down on you or something.

Sounds like a good shit

song.

It's good worship

music.

Oh, yeah.

Worship of self.

Yeah, there we go.

Yeah, that's true.

That's so fair.

Wow.

Yeah.

No, that exists.

Okay,

so back to it.

So, Lamek had two wives.

Two wives.

We don't condone that.

Do we wanna...

Is this the first time

more than one wife has shown

up?

Yeah.

In the Bible?

This is the first time.

Entirely.

Yep.

Yeah, I think I agree.

Do you think that's

actually the

first time that's happened?

No, absolutely not.

No?

No.

If it were someone

else, who do you think it would be?

Someone in the town

that Cain started.

The city.

Yeah, city, whatever.

Yeah.

Sorry.

I would agree.

Yeah.

But honestly,

like...

All right, that is what I was thinking

with David and Solomon.

Like, they had a whole bunch of wives and

everything.

And girlfriends,

I keep minds.

Basically girlfriends.

Oh, wow.

Nowadays, girlfriends.

If you're not a Christian.

Right?

That is...

Am I wrong?

You're very wrong.

How am I wrong?

Explain it to me.

I accept.

Concubines are there

for

sexual

gratification.

Okay.

Girlfriends are not there for

sexual gratification.

Yeah, depends on who you are.

You...

I

mean,

yeah, sure.

But yeah, I see.

I see what you mean.

They're only there.

The idea of a

concubine is...

That's their entire purpose.

Yeah.

Which is...

Well, excuse me.

The way I should say

it is they're there

for children.

But...

Really?

Yes.

Because...

What about all the kids?

Because of the importance of...

I'm so confused.

What time

period are you thinking of?

David Solomon.

Having an heir

is extremely

important.

Yeah, and so you wouldn't have it with a

concubine.

So you...

But having an heir

is more important.

Like, if the first woman

that you marry doesn't

give you an heir,

or if that heir doesn't work

out, you have to go and get

another heir.

The only way you're gonna get another

heir is hopefully

through another woman.

Yeah, you're not gonna get another heir

just by holding your breath.

I was waiting.

In my

mouth, I

hold an heir.

And I will have more heir.

Somewhere

else.

How do you fit an heir in your mouth?

How do you feel...

I don't know.

That's disgusting, Michael.

What do you...

Pagan?

do What you call it when you eat?

Peaches?

Cannonball?

Cannonball.

You just say cannonball?

I did.

You are a cannonball.

On purpose.

I am a cannonball.

I came in like a cannonball.

I came in like a

cannonball.

This is crazy.

Are we gonna get copyright striked for
that?

Yeah, absolutely.

Damn it.

I don't even have to bleep that entire
thing out.

Well...

But...

No, it's very important to have an heir.

Because you have to have someone that
succeeds.

Yeah, but not through a concubine.

It was absolutely

necessary.

Like, when you have...

I forget how many

wives Solomon

had, Plus plus

concubines.

but it was something like...

wives.

Yeah, I'm like 600

concubines.

Yeah something like that

something nasty

I mean maybe

for royalty it

was definitely for a sexual

gratification Yeah,

but you know the same

with the wives or was that

more like a business?

I mean if you have that

many wives It's you're

definitely not just like oh

I need an error or I need

like no you're definitely

If you're doing that if you're

a king and you have wives

mm -hmm does that mean every

single wife is a queen

technically?

Yeah, how would that work

though?

I don't what it's a thing it'd be

awful.

Yeah, see so

we're but the but the

confusing This is we're

trying to figure this out

But the thing about the

thing about the king is that the king

has

all the power women

didn't really have a place

in society so

Even if she was a queen

she was more just

There and I think back

then depends I think that back

then is Like

unless the king really

wanted them to have

power Yeah, he would give

it to them and declare

them whatever but

head over something but

If you have 300 of them

you're probably not

doing that no you're probably

just imagine if you give

if Solomon gave

Of his wives like

they would kill him out.

Yeah They would

have war against each other

and then each other yeah Yeah,

yeah,

that's nothing

piss off one wife and you're

screwed

No, thank you.

I would just wake up

and like

What would be like 60

of them would like wake up

pissed off of me because I did something

bad in the dream,

you know

But again, you know

back then they wouldn't

really raise a hand against

men

You gave him

power unless he in power.

Yeah, you think you

think the men

Were unhinged because

they're men.

No, they were unhinged because they had
power

but I brought that whole thing

up because yes

Kingship is not even

in Israel

like God King

them idea

God wanted to have the

prophets in place until

Israel was like we don't want to be like

everybody else Come

on and

then God was like,

okay, you know give you a king.

Yeah, and

Yeah, but what Kings

did was was

all that Yeah

having tons of wives and

having concubines.

Yeah,

so

Maybe that's

when God's people actually

like started picking up

what Cain's people

started doing

maybe with

lame old

Lamek lame

lamek.

Yep, and his two

wives and his

two eight and Zilla

ugly wives

Sorry, no, they

were probably fine.

I don't know lamek.

I can't even believe you

got two wives Yeah

with that statement.

We don't know a whole lot about

lamek, but all I know

is he

seems

Like I mean,

here's the thing lamek might have

been a hard worker Yeah,

but he's also if you

look trigger happy like

he's like he's gonna

snap at

like the slightest thing

Oh, yeah.

Well, maybe he was

drunk.

He's wrong.

He said this.

Yeah, maybe

Maybe he was like

actually like a

wuss and he's like trying to build

himself up to his wives

because that it's

say like Lamek said to

his wives.

He did if he

really was a baller.

He's like Ada and

Zilla.

Hey,

I Want you to

know this?

Yep.

No

But here's the

thing that's interesting.

Yeah about

lamek.

We'll stop He produced

some pretty interesting errors

like breathing

errors like

co2

Like problems

like issues

errors do we need a

troubleshoot?

I mean if you think about

it when you have

children a lot of

errors

When you see trouble, do

you shoot especially when they're

your errors?

Should you shoot

trouble if they're

your errors?

What if troubles a person?

Yes, or maybe you're

supposed to be troubling shoot Maybe

shoot as a person and you're

troubling them.

I see just like

attention.

Mm -hmm.

You gotta pay them.

Yep Yeah, attention

needs to be paid.

Yep.

Yeah, and

Pay attention it

doesn't really extend credit

There is no credit.

No, there's no line of credit with

attention you ain't

You're not gaining

anything.

Oh My god moving on

the first

son to ball

is a son of

Ada.

Yep She gave

birth to Jabal.

He was the father

of those who live

in tents and have

livestock tight

now

for for

first off

The

father of

those

Who live in

tents and

have livestock

What does that even mean

like when you father something

you like

that he came

up with it that he

Sleep with a tent

and that baby

tents

Do do do

do do do

livestock Oh,

livestock?

No,

but

he's

the father of those

who live in tents.

And tents.

So like,

I'm assuming

that he just

came up with the whole tent

thing and having

livestock.

So which begs the question.

Yeah.

Well, but like, then I think

back to Abel.

Yeah.

And he was...

He's a farmer.

No, Abel

was...

He dealt with the sheep.

Oh, right.

Cain was a farmer.

Yeah, Cain was a farmer.

And Abel

was

a

shepherd.

A shepherd.

Was he?

Yeah.

So do you think

these

people are actually

the father

of, or

is this like,

exaggeration?

Like, er, He's a keeper of

flocks.

Say that again.

You think this is like them,

like giving themselves

like titles?

Like, I

founded

dirt.

I don't think

so because

I don't think Moses

would be like,

hey,

especially being inspired by the Holy

Spirit, you know, it's like,

here, let me put a lie in

here.

No, it wouldn't be a lie.

It would be misleading though.

Yeah.

I see your point.

Which is a lie.

No, it's a deception.

Which is lying.

It's a deception.

Deception implies

lying.

Deception doesn't have to be a lie.

It just needs to

lead the

person to believe

what is not true.

You don't have to lie.

To believe a lie.

Yeah, but you're not technically

lying.

It involves lying.

You're not stating a false.

It's lying by omission.

Yeah, it can be that.

Which is still lying.

also could It be lying by

misleading.

Which is omission.

Still a form of

lying, but we don't call it

lying.

We call it

omission.

So either way, something

like that would not be in the platform.

Because that would be sinful.

So these guys

aren't exaggerating.

So what's the difference between

being a father of

livestock

and being the

keeper of sheep?

Is that what I said?

I think livestock

is a

wider

grouping of

people.

like Oh, cows,

bulls,

pigs.

For sure pigs.

Not pigs.

Oh, wait, no.

We don't have a little claw yet.

Just like a bunch of

different animals.

And maybe what this is also

is like, maybe he

also fathered the

idea of like,

keeping them in

pens or something, or like

in clothes or

something like He that.

created like a

process.

Yeah, I think that would

be it.

Now, the crazy thing is,

how do you...

Okay, maybe he's kind

of like me.

Mm -hmm.

In that he's kind of

like,

let's do things

really

simply.

And he has a very systematically

minded.

And he's just like, let's...

Hey, guys,

like I see you struggling

with

all these animals,

but let's

sit down.

Let's figure out how to

do this without

struggling so much.

You know, it's taking you guys 10 hours

to deal with these animals.

I think we can cut it down.

Cut it down to two hours.

So maybe he's a smart man.

To ball.

To ball.

To ball.

Baller.

Because he also...

What was the other thing he did?

I think that's this.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Why tense?

It seems

tense.

I feel like they...

I guess we don't know anything about...

I guess we don't know

anything about...

And this is in the past, so it's past
tense.

But I guess we don't know

anything about...

About what their living

situations back then.

Like they don't...

They didn't say anything.

They said that there's a city

that Cain found,

but...

He found it?

He founded it.

Where did it come from?

I don't know.

Where did it come from?

He was just wandering and he happened

on.

Where did it come from?

Where did it go?

Konnai -cho.

You think that was his nickname?

No.

Oh, okay.

But they would have asked him.

Where did you come from?

Yeah.

And he had to keep moving.

So, you know, they're like, where did you

go?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that is true.

Cain probably lived in a tent.

If his kids...

If his family stayed with him as

he was traveling,

like he probably...

I mean, do you think they

actually built things

other than tents?

That's the thing.

It's like, okay, well,

I brought up a good

point just now.

I know.

I just climbed it myself.

But because...

It's all there of this point.

The other way.

That's a...

There we go.

No, that's not what I meant.

You're the father, just like they're the

father of tents and livestock.

And you're the father of this point.

Yeah.

The point that you're...

Yeah, yeah, Not the pencil point.

Not the pencil point.

Yeah.

Which isn't really a point.

Yeah, it's kind of broken.

Do you have a pencil shaker?

Sure don't.

No,

thank you.

I just bit it

for everybody who's listening.

Yummy.

It tastes good.

Does it?

No.

You would.

So because Kane

is traveling,

I mean,

because the idea behind his curse

is that he's just gonna be a

wanderer.

So if his family is with

him, they are gonna need

to like sleep

at some point.

So maybe they were just

out in the open before

and one of his sons,

or one of Lamech's

sons

kind of knew about that whole

situation and was like, hey,

we don't have to do this.

Let's settle down.

Throw down some tents.

Throw down.

That's the other thing too,

with livestock, because if

they did have to move, they'd have to have

a system

of

transporting

all their animals.

So maybe he came up with that too.

First rancher.

Yeah.

I'm always a rancher.

Because like I think

about...

He's sleeping under the stars

with a pack.

But I think about

like when they're

out in the wilderness,

Israel,

and they have, I mean, they have

all these animals

moving with

them as

they

pick

everything up, all their tents,

everything,

and move along.

So like all

of that dates back to

this guy, Jabal,

who

came over this...

first He's the tent maker.

That's pretty important.

Oh, you know what?

Tents,

what do they need to be

made?

Cloth.

Or

what's

gonna survive longer

than cloth?

What comes from livestock?

Wool?

I mean, maybe.

Oh,

hides.

Hides, yes.

Yeah,

So maybe it's the father of leather.

Made leather tents.

Well, I think it

would have said that

though, if he was

the father of...

Is leather ever mentioned in the Bible?

Maybe.

Let's write that down.

Because it's more about

tents.

So I have

a feeling it's

more about like

him

taking the materials that he already

has

and

utilizing them.

Well, usually when people

are founding businesses

and stuff, which I'm just

gonna assume these are businesses,

they usually do

vertical

integration.

So that's what

I'm thinking.

These two

businesses are linked somehow.

So the livestock

produce

what

is partly

needed for the tents and

whatever else

is

not producible

for the

tents

is purchased

from

other people,

in their own little

city economy.

Which is probably why they made a

city,

to have an economy.

So they could actually specialize.

You know what?

That's probably why the Bible is actually
pointing

this out.

Because for the first time ever,

there's a massive

group of people in one spot

where people can actually specialize.

Yeah,

that's fair.

Yeah, the result

of

basically

collaborating and

having something like

that.

It's like a giant team.

But you don't have to be

a team player or

even think you're a team.

You're just on the team by obeying

the

laws.

And it's interesting

how specifically this

one,

how pivotal

it is

that this comes

up because this is such a

huge part of

everything.

I mean, we hear

so much

about

biblical

figures

picking up their stuff,

living in tents,

carrying their livestock with them.

I mean, Abraham,

the first one lives

in tents.

Yeah, it's crazy.

Wow.

I mean,

someone's gotta

become

good at this.

He needs royalties.

How much would he keep getting paid

right now?

I think.

In perpetuity.

Bro's probably the richest

person on the planet.

I said, bro's probably the richest

person in

history.

For sure.

Based off of all that, because

we're still using tents.

Yeah, if he had royalties in

perpetuity,

like if he was a shark.

Dude,

hey,

listeners,

you should look up

how much he would be

making right now.

You know?

I know that you

were listening.

That's a good question.

But I was more talking

about the

corgis.

Ah, yes, the corgis.

I'm writing it down.

For whatever reason they are.

Hey,

we got a message.

Hey,

what's up, blind bandits?

2714.

That's good, dog.

What's up, my dude?

Too bad you're not here.

We're talking about your

favorite topic.

Something.

Anything?

Anything.

Your favorite topic.

Anything.

Yeah.

We know you love to talk.

Yeah.

We feel like you have insight.

Bruh.

Oh, hey, look,

look, look.

Sorry.

Listen, listen, listen.

For the audience, by the way,

Blind Bandit, that's Steve.

Yeah, that's Steven.

He's not our new character.

He's chat in the right now.

And he loves listening to us

make blind jokes about him

when we can't even see him right now.

Yeah.

Hey, how does it feel?

Not being able to see.

Fuzzy.

He probably dipped.

Yeah, he's like, I don't want to listen to
these fools.

Oh,

wow.

There we go.

Hey, he's number one.

Look at that.

Number one fan.

Yeah, because he's the only fan.

That's fine.

Yikes.

Anyways.

Hey, hey, hey, hey,

hey, hey, hey,

hey, hey, hey,

hey, hey,

um.

Royalty's?

Question mark?

Question mark.

Yeah.

Someone should look into that.

How much?

Let us know.

Because that'd be awesome to know.

Should we just like not look this up?

It'd be like.

Oh, yeah.

Drop it in the reviews.

Yeah.

Or yeah.

Drop it in reviews and

we'll give

you a shout out.

Yeah.

In like an intro or something.

Yeah.

Like look, so and so, pull

through.

Yeah.

So,

give us

anything

above a three star

review.

Preferably a five star

review.

Unless it's like out of ten.

In which case,

ten out of

ten.

Yeah.

Por favor.

Where

do

ten stars

happen?

I hear there's a Chinese

platform.

Oh,

great.

So, yeah.

Comment.

Oh, no.

Steven's going to do negative three stars.

Negative three stars?

That's not even possible.

He's going to vibe code something

so it's possible.

Remember when they took down the thumbs
down

button?

Oh, yeah.

Dude.

Stupid.

It still exists.

Yeah.

Like you can still find

it in the

background.

Like if you go and inspect the

page, it's still there.

It's just hidden.

Anyways, back to our

text.

Wait.

Yeah.

That guy's super important.

What?

So, we answer these questions.

So,

is

leather mentioned in the Bible?

That's one.

Drop that in a review.

Yeah.

And we'll give you a shout out.

And then royalties.

How much would

Jibbal

have

in his bank

account?

Yeah.

At this point.

I'm going to guess quintillions.

No, this is a loaded

question.

Yeah.

Because number one.

How much were it?

Interest or no interest?

Oh.

Are we talking like

actually

like

he's making

money or

he's

gathering like

the resources that people

trade for it?

And then what's the cost of

storing all that?

Oh, that brings up a good

question.

a actually And monetary so there's system.

Well, is there even money back then?

Probably not.

When does money come into the picture?

Well, maybe in a city.

Maybe.

Maybe.

Or maybe it's just a broader system.

That's probably why they use gold,

honestly.

It's probably,

I mean,

going back to the first city.

Like gold is,

I mean, it was all over the garden.

Like it's shiny.

It doesn't really wear

out.

So gold was in the garden.

Yeah.

It was all over the place.

In the garden of Eden?

Garden of Eden.

Full of gold.

Yeah.

You don't know this?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

What do you mean?

We just read that part.

It doesn't say anything about gold.

Yeah.

No, it doesn't.

Yes, it does.

I'm pretty certain it does.

But anyways,

you can dive deep into this question.

Oilsies.

How much?

Same with his brother.

Jubal.

Jubal.

Instead of jubal.

Yeah.

Jubal,

jubal, and

tubal.

Tubal, tubal

dash cane.

You gotta say the dash part.

Jubal.

Three ball.

But jubal.

Quattro ball.

Suck ball.

Stop avoiding

the

dome

of the subject.

The dome.

Gosh,

the shiny

round.

There was a podcast that I listened to.

It was a Dungeons and Dragons podcast.

And one

of the players

came up with this

dumb character

that lasted like

two or three episodes because he

died right away.

And

he

was just

super dumb.

He was like a subject to some

kind of king or whatever.

And they

would basically have him

do work for shiny

rounds.

And he'd be like,

I want shiny rounds!

And they just give him

like little

paper cutouts or

whatever that's like

painted with

shiny

stuff or whatever.

And And...

he would accept

it.

And even if they

gave him gold, he wouldn't even

know what to do with it.

So it doesn't even

matter.

Yeah.

Okay, let's see if I can find the

gold thing in the garden.

But keep going.

Anyways,

but Jubal,

okay.

Jubal and Tubal

seem to be

kind of in the same

business in some

sense.

One seemed to be a

forger

of

iron and

bronze that it would take

to make the instruments.

Wait a minute.

I must have misread

something.

Okay.

Hold on.

Because I wrote down Jubal

is the father of the

wire in the pipe.

Yeah.

So he's,

what am I missing here?

Tubal Cane is

a forger for all

bronze and iron

instruments.

Oh, I just didn't go far

enough.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

I was thinking there was like two guys.

Tubal.

Tubal.

Maybe Tubal is two

people.

Maybe.

Maybe they just combined the two

J's and made a T.

Probably not.

That wouldn't make any sense.

There's two tails that are just

missing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Also English.

English is awful.

English was not the first language.

Oh, yeah, that's fair.

What do you think the first language was?

Maybe Heber.

Probably not.

Yeah.

Who knows?

I have no idea.

It's some kind of

cuneiform.

Cuneiform.

Cuneiform.

Is it cuneiform?

Cuneiform.

Cuneiform.

Or cuneiform.

Ticuneiform.

Yeah.

That's about it.

I thought about it too.

Yeah.

I have no

idea to know what kind

of language they had back then.

But, um,

Tubal,

father of playing

the lyre

in pipe,

have no idea what the

pipe would be.

Is it an instrument?

I'm thinking it's an instrument.

Well, yeah.

Well, it says playing.

But that's playing the lyre.

And pipe.

It says and the pipe?

Yeah.

Okay.

I was thinking, well,

maybe they are

in the family of

maniacs.

So maybe it's like smoking

pipe, you know?

Yeah, it could be.

But

I

think based off of the context

of what these other people are

doing, it's probably a little more

wholesome than that.

I'm searching for the gold right now.

Yeah.

Oh, I'm so close.

This is great.

I think the pipe is probably

more like a flute -type

instrument, recorder kind

of deal,

where you blow into it and

the lyre.

Probably.

I mean, the lyre is a string instrument

made of wood.

You're a lyre.

It's interesting.

I wonder if

Tubal cane.

So it's

interesting that they're the father

of

these things.

Yeah.

So I imagine that

maybe Tubal cane.

What's up?

I found it.

Okay.

Genesis two, verse 11.

The last part, Havela,

where there is gold.

That's not in

Eden.

A river flowed out of Eden

to water the garden.

And there it divided

and became four rivers.

The name of the first is the

Pishon.

It is

the one that flowed

around the whole land of

Havela where there is gold.

Okay, maybe it's not the garden.

So I guess that lines up

more because I was thinking if it was in

the garden, how did they get

the gold?

If it wasn't, easy.

So they just

grabbed

the gold and dipped.

Maybe.

At this point, they

have bronze and iron

and they're forging.

Yeah, so why not gold?

Yeah.

It's just not useful

for anything else besides

needing

to

maintain

what it represents.

Yeah.

You know what's interesting?

I think it's funny.

This has nothing to do with

our biblical topic,

but the fact that

gold has

value.

Yeah.

Where do you think that came from?

And

there's like a gold standard and

whatever.

And I mean,

I guess

it would be determined

because it's

nice and

shiny and they thought it

was rare and

whatever.

It is rare.

But when

you

forge it and

everything and make it into things,

it's like, oh, cool, gold

bar.

doesn't It rust.

Whatever.

Sure.

But what's funny about it?

It just, the value of

things,

it becoming the

standard at some

point.

It's a quay.

Because there has to be

a standard.

There's an actual

kilogram weight.

Like what's a kilogram

besides

a

hunk of metal

that we decided is a

kilogram.

Right.

But

measuring

something makes sense to

me.

Yeah.

But

having

something of

value

that is the standard for

all value of

things.

It's a measurement.

That's...

The measurement of

value.

That's weird.

Represented by

a physical object.

But value...

Can be measured in

weight.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or in...

numerics.

So, But coins.

four if we

look at things

now...

Two coins.

Or two

ounces of gold.

Four ounces of gold.

Yeah.

But like if we look at things

now,

currency

can

be...

Anything.

...algorithms.

Yeah.

Or...

As long as it's secure,

it's immutable.

Yeah.

Fancy word.

But if we

were to

be

in an apocalypse,

we would go directly...

Well, if we

can find

it...

Yeah.

...or get to it or whatever.

Yeah.

But also,

no, because

what we would be

doing in

smaller sections,

the little groupings, is we would just

be trading.

Well, that's what happens when you have a

smaller group of people.

Yeah.

But

I don't know.

It's just interesting

to me that

we do that

when...

I mean, and I understand

it in the sense that like

people can't

agree unless

there's a standard.

And most

value really is

determined by nostalgia

or

by a need

that needs to...

That has to be met.

Proceed the value.

And...

Proceed the value.

Not nostalgia.

Yes,

nostalgia, but under

the

umbrella of proceed the

value.

Sure.

Or,

yeah, just something that

they want.

That's what I was gonna say.

Okay.

Wanting...

It's better.

Nostalgia.

I'm just listing the different types

of things.

So...

And people won't necessarily

agree and then they'll feel a little

swindled.

It's like, oh, well, how valuable is this

to you?

Whatever.

But like,

it's just weird to me.

I understand why

it's there.

I'm all about setting a

standard for something so that people can

more easily

agree.

But it's just

interesting to

have come to that

point somewhere

along the line.

I mean, you think about...

And people just agreed upon it.

You think about what it takes

to uphold a

currency.

It takes someone who's

violent,

who can enforce the

currency,

enforce a standard,

and something that's

immutable that

can

be

judged

easily

by

anybody,

whether it's real or

not.

And so gold

nearly

perfectly fits that.

And

they had a city

and these people were

really violent.

I mean, maybe

Lamek

enforced the

treasury

system.

Who knows?

Yeah.

Right?

That's all it really takes.

But

I

hear

Joe

Rogan talk

about why do

people

find gold

innately valuable?

Why is everybody

just drawn to

it?

And I

think it's because it's the perfect

candidate

for a currency

and that's it.

And it's like,

that's taking

the...

Well,

I mean, it's coming from a biblical

perspective, but I'm trying to think about

it from an evolutionary

perspective.

And I think it'd

be the same answer.

There's

nothing innately

fascinating about gold

except

for that it's shiny,

interesting color

sometimes.

And it's malleable when

it's metal,

which is just

rare.

It doesn't rust.

It's kind of heavy.

I mean, it's

interesting,

but it's also

rare.

So

it's

perfect for a

currency system.

What else would you use?

If you've got a

system of livestock

tents, liars pipes,

you've got bronze,

you've got...

What was it?

Bronze, iron.

Was there anything else?

Oh, it was instruments of bronze and

iron.

Do you think that was playable

instruments or is this like

instruments as in tools

of bronze and iron?

I

just

assumed that it

was...

Instruments, because we're talking about
liars

and pipes.

That's what I'm thinking.

But still, bronze and iron age,

right away,

within the first

couple

hundred years of the

world existing.

Yeah.

Crazy.

I think,

I mean, there's a part of

me that's like, maybe this is like,

I'm assuming that Lamek is

kind of in the first

city.

And him being

in the first city,

I'm assuming this

is the first city because all it

really says is that Kane

went and started

a city.

Called Enoch.

Called Enoch.

So I'm assuming this is the

first city.

And so...

And so,

you know, these

kids,

they, you know,

are living here and

they father these

things and

some of the, they just

needed a

job or they needed something to

do.

And so Jubal, being the creative

one, was like,

oh, look,

two ball cane made

instruments

out of bronze

and iron,

which,

you know, just the, just

first off, someone

had to come up with instruments.

So they had to come up with bronze and
iron.

So, well,

yeah, there's that.

But someone had to

be like, oh, I

can blow into

some

thing.

Yes, sir, you can.

And,

and

it'll make this cool

sound.

And if I do it at

certain, at different

frequencies,

or if the whole, the whole smaller,

bigger, like, someone

did that within

the first 100 years

of the earth

being

in

existence.

That's crazy.

Which is so...

And then thought to do with metal.

Yeah.

Like, because it also figured out metal.

Yeah.

Like, because they undoubtedly

did it with, with

like,

well, because like, you can do things

with grass or whatever, if you

put it between your hands.

Sure.

Yeah.

And you can let, and like,

maybe they do, I would

assume they do with wood because we have,

we have a liar.

So.

But like, how do you figure these things

out besides nature showing

you?

Like, imagine being

born

in

just

the wilderness.

Yeah.

And like, in the

first couple,

let's say we

actually

live hundreds of years, in

the first few hundred years of your

life, you figure out

bronze,

iron,

instruments,

tents, livestock,

cities,

currency, probably.

These people must have been geniuses.

Yeah.

How do you figure that out in

less than a few hundred years?

I don't know.

Like, like these are not

Neanderthals.

I mean, we,

oh, yeah.

Don't get me started on people that.

These are

Einstein's.

Yeah.

Every single one of them.

Well, and if we look at

like, the

development of

the world right

now in the last

hundred, 200

years,

like blown up,

huge,

huge advancements.

Oh, yeah.

And I almost,

so the thing that keeps coming to

mind

is

the presence of God.

Yeah.

I know we see

later

in

chapter five, it brings

up that

with

Seth, or maybe

it was,

maybe it was the end

of chapter four.

I can't remember, but my phone's

dead.

Oh, oh.

But here,

maybe

the

presence of God

being there,

I still wonder

how

involved he

could have been

because,

okay, at that

time, people began to call

upon the name of the Lord.

So yeah, it's the end of chapter

four.

So people began to call

upon the name of the Lord, but I wonder

how much,

how often

God

was

still communing

with people.

Yeah.

Because I don't

know if it was entirely cold

turkey.

It wasn't cold turkey

because God talked to Cain.

Mark Adam for sure.

Yeah.

And he revealed himself

several times,

vocally or through an angel or

whatever.

So,

you know, there is

some direct

involvement going on.

And I mean,

talk about hundreds of years,

like maybe he's there

saying,

you know, giving them ideas

and talking about

just the different possibilities

and whatever.

And I mean,

I've always thought about

this.

a good is That point.

Yeah.

I've always thought about this too,

but like, God is

God.

And if someone is close with him or
someone

is talking to him, like,

maybe they ask him questions about

the future.

It's you know,

the beginning and the end

through the alpha

and the Omega.

He's like,

first, you're going to want a crafting

table.

For what?

For what?

Put it in this shape.

Make sure to draw the

lines for the squares.

Make this.

Dump.

But

I

mean, I don't think

it's outside of the realm of possibility.

No.

Because God is

whisking

Enoch away, the other

Enoch.

And you know, people communing with

God, walking with

God,

seemingly

somewhat literally.

And

I

mean, we don't

know

necessarily what that's

like

culturally,

but I feel like

it's more of

a thing because of Adam

and Eve,

because of

Cain,

possibly,

probably.

He probably talks about it all

the time in him being a

wanderer and everything.

And Enoch,

I'm sure people were like,

whoa, word bro,

go.

He's just gone.

There's not even a body.

He's just gone.

Well, I think

didn't...

No, that was Elijah.

I'm thinking Elijah.

Elijah saw

Elijah go up to

heaven.

Yeah.

But yeah, no one saw Enoch.

Yeah.

No, at least

scripture doesn't say.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, you know, there is

this weird sense

of

direct

involvement that we have

where God is

present.

is that true.

Yeah, I've never thought about that.

Yeah.

Like he's very involved

in his creation.

And I mean, we see within a

hundred years,

the creation of

instruments.

Yeah.

But also this is Cain's people.

Yeah.

Do you think

God

held it against

those

people?

Does he hold it against us?

No.

No.

So, do you think he was

helping the

city thrive?

I think it was more

because God gives

us specific

gifts.

And, you know, they

didn't have the Holy Spirit back then.

So, I think there is a

sense of like,

maybe not

coercing

or like

pushing them in a

certain direction, but

I don't know.

I think it is possible

that they

would...

They at least know God

exists.

They at least know

that there is a

being

that...

Because Adam and Eve are still alive

for several hundred

years after this.

It's like 800 years.

Yeah.

And, you know, everything

is word of mouth

and anything

big is absolutely

going to travel.

Like a dinosaur.

Yeah.

Exactly like a dinosaur.

Absolutely.

You think that the

message by

Pterodactyl?

It's a living.

No, I don't

think they do.

not, Why dog?

Go on.

Because I

just

don't.

Anyways, yeah.

It's crazy, the

possibilities with these

people.

Just the

creation of an instrument

is

astounding.

I have no idea

how you just

happen upon that.

And how you think, oh, this makes

a sound.

I'm going to make more sounds with

it that are completely

different.

God Like made us as

instruments.

Yeah.

Like we can sing

out of the

box.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's interesting too.

Like maybe Jubal

also could

sing.

Oh, I'm sure.

Yeah.

I bet a lot of people could sing.

Like really well.

Because they're probably doing it all day

long.

They're probably doing it all day

long.

But how do you go from

singing

to

creating a lyre,

which is a stringed instrument?

Well, you know what?

Probably you just have

tools that

are meant for other

things,

like these keys.

Yeah.

They make a noise and

then you realize, oh, this,

like if I take this

key and I bang it

against this key, it makes

a very specific noise.

And if the key is bigger, it makes

a deeper noise.

If the key is smaller, it makes

like a higher pitched

softer noise.

And you just go from there.

I imagine like we have

tents and we

have livestock

and I imagine that there's

rope.

Yeah.

And if you,

depending on what they're using.

You're pulling the rope

down.

I mean, look,

we're talking about menure.

They're probably messing around.

What if I like make

this rope like smaller?

It won't be as

deep as the keys

that the thing with the

smaller key and the bigger

key.

I bet you it'll be.

Yeah.

Maybe so.

Maybe they're not geniuses.

They're probably more

genius than we are

naturally

because

like how good their

genetics are.

Here's another thing though.

The lyre,

what kind of strings does it have?

Nice.

I don't know.

Because

I

would

almost wonder if it's

metal strings.

Oh,

because we have bronze and

iron.

And iron.

Yeah.

How do you make bronze?

Is that possible to

do bronze strings and iron

strings?

Like, okay.

What you're saying

is like

this is top level

manufacturing.

Yeah.

Like we're getting into

fine

word.

We're not talking

banging iron

into shape anymore.

But the other form,

the other kind of

strings,

what are they made of?

Grass,

animals.

How are you?

Oh, hair.

Hair.

Hair.

Oh, hair.

Like the airport?

Sure.

Oh.

Yep.

But could you, you

couldn't get a

good enough sound

out of hair.

The strings that we have

now are like silicone

or

metal.

Yeah.

And

I mean

maybe out of certain types of

hair?

Well we also don't

really know

what kind of

animals existed back then.

Also there could have been like if

there was fire

-breathing

dinosaurs,

which where does

Chinese lore come from?

Fire -breathing dinosaurs.

It's not that

hard to

imagine.

There is

speculation

that this thing is actually

a dragon.

It would be pretty

cool actually.

Listen to the Honda

Cosmos podcast.

Oh yeah?

Yeah.

Dude I was talking to Jacob

about that.

He's like,

dude you

know how many times we've

mentioned that on this

podcast?

Dude,

so good.

It's great.

Yeah, I'll have to listen to that.

Yeah.

We're talking about the moon landing in
this

recent season.

I did.

And I don't

like their conclusions.

No?

Mm -hmm.

I love space and I love

the moon landing and the fact

that

I

haven't heard the episode but Jacob says

that they concluded that the

moon landing is not real.

Maybe they were joking?

He was not listening to the episode.

Okay.

All right cool.

There's no way.

Maybe I just don't like Jacob.

Maybe

he

didn't finish the episode or

something.

Maybe.

I got it.

listen to Because at the very end they
definitely

are like, so here's the thing.

It's totally real.

And they get all into

it and they're like, oh my god.

Oh god.

my

I hate it when people

die.

Don't believe it, yeah.

I mean, yeah, okay.

I'd rather you deny

that

we landed on the moon

than say that the earth is flat.

Because one is

possible.

Sure.

The other one's, are

you nuts?

Are you

crazy?

Yeah.

I mean, and the thing that they said

too is that there are

things that could have

been

faked in order to

show that we had

one up on

Russia.

But that's pretty much.

I'm sure they had a plan in the

bag ready to

fake it.

That's not far -fetched.

Yeah.

But anyways,

apart from that advancement.

Strings.

Strings.

Right?

That's how we get up on that?

Yeah.

No idea what they would be.

Dinosaurs.

Fire -breathing dinosaurs.

Not a far -fetched thing because we have

fire -breathing bugs.

Yeah.

Nuts.

Right, Steven?

Steven in the comments, if you're
listening

still.

Can you confirm that we have fire

-breathing bugs?

Fire breathing.

Also,

do we have any,

I guess I don't need to point out that

screen.

I'm going here.

That's where the jar is.

The jar?

Yeah.

Of Steven.

Oh, that's where

Steven's brain is.

Steven, you wouldn't understand.

Listen.

You had to listen at the very beginning.

If you are listening, Steven,

could you look up

if there

are any other fire

-breathing any kind?

Yeah, creatures of any kind.

You know what would be weird?

Fire -breathing water creatures.

Fire -breathing fish.

I was literally thinking about that

too.

I'm like, are there any like.

That would be so strange.

What would be the point?

Besides, God's just like,

you know what would be cool?

I mean,

there's

lava things

underneath water.

So maybe they

adapted from that.

But why would they

use

fire?

I mean, fire is meant

to usually,

it's like a predatory one.

You could boil.

Boil.

It would be a lot.

Boil.

Boil.

Maybe you consume the water

and your body boils it.

You kill creatures by

boiling.

That'd be nuts.

Hey, man.

I don't know.

It'd be so much easier ways to kill your.

What if it's a big fish?

Imagine if Jonah gets followed by

a fire -breathing fish.

He looks burnt.

What happened to you, son?

What happened?

You got spit out and you're

dry as

the

summer desert.

Yeah.

Summer desert?

Summer desert.

That's it.

Could be a winter desert too.

Could be.

You're right.

Yeah.

All those advancements

are.

Nuts.

Insane.

Yeah.

We don't know what kind of animals

it is that back then.

Like so many animals have gone

extinct.

Whether you believe in evolution

or young earth.

I believe in young earth six

to 10 ,000 years max.

But if

the

worldwide flood

happened and tons of

creatures died out

and then

not a lot actually

survived after the flood,

even though they were on the arc,

whatever might have happened.

Plus they only brought

kinds of animals.

There might have been singing

kinds

of

bears or something.

I don't know.

Bears that stood on two feet

and played the banjo.

Those kinds of bears.

Yeah.

But those kinds didn't make

it on.

What is it

called?

Arc Scott Talent.

There it is.

There's an audition.

They didn't make it.

I know Simon the

ostrich.

just wouldn't pass

him.

I don't know why Simon's an ostrich, but.

Simon is an ostrich, yep.

He's sticking his neck out

there.

He did not put

his neck in the sand, they said in the

sand.

But there could have been

animals that

sang

like a stringed instrument

would.

And then they

catch the animal, they cut

it open, they're like, what

the heck are these?

And there's a guitar neck.

Their neck.

Like,

it's not that far

fetched.

I mean, you know, it's interesting.

It's kind of weird.

But we've like invented

so many things based

on nature.

Yeah.

So many things.

Sorry, I interrupted.

I was just thinking about

how

there's

this,

another topic talked about

on Homs cosmos

is fairies.

Yeah, I did watch that one.

Or listened to that one.

Oh, yeah.

So the idea that there are

like nature spirits.

And

there's

a part of me that's like

maybe,

you know, kind of in that same

vein when we talked about how

advancement, technological

advancement could have been like

far greater in

during this time.

Like, maybe this is just the

very beginning.

And so, you know, as hundreds

of years go by, it

gets more and more crazy.

But yeah,

like,

maybe there were nature

spirits and all that

different stuff.

And maybe those

aren't considered

animals.

So they

got destroyed in

the flood.

Boy, if there were

spirits.

Just think about it.

Well, I mean, like,

like, in the sense that like, there's

a physical form that they

have.

Because because like the Giants,

and the

Nephilim,

you know, like,

they didn't make it.

They're not here.

They made it in the Bible for some reason.

Yeah.

So I almost

wonder, because

they're like, men

of renown, or they're like

these mighty,

powerful

people.!

Yeah.

And so I almost wonder,

like,

there's lore

that we

have,

or some ideas that we

have, possibly

from an older time

before the flood

of like,

you know, maybe there were hydras.

Maybe there were all these crazy

monsters and nature

spirits and,

you know, whatever.

And maybe the demons were

walking around as

like these crazy guys.

And like, I don't know.

I don't think that's far past you.

No.

And we see God walking around

in the first few hundred years, like,

lots of evidence that God

is literally at least

talking to people.

But we also see

Melchizedek last

episode.

Like, we think

Melchizedek is

a Christophany.

Like Jesus just chilling

as the first priest.

Yeah.

Like, that's nuts.

That's God in person.

Yeah.

So why not, like, why

not the

demons and why not

the angels?

I mean, it's,

you know, it

just goes back

to it's not

flesh and blood

that we're dealing with.

It's forces of

darkness.

And so maybe,

especially because it's a

completely different time,

and sin manifested

in much different

ways, because

I would kind

of imagine, like,

because of the

kind of lack of

advancement in science,

you know, we don't know or

understand so much.

So the

range of

the

type of

disbelief is

more tied to more,

like,

fantastical type things

or could be.

Type of disbelief?

Disbelief.

Yeah.

So right now,

we're more

concerned with what

does this,

what does our science

say?

What does this

test that we've done

on this thing,

like hard evidence kind of

deal,

rather than like a

fantastical

spiritual

tie

to how

everything works.

Or like, you know, because we,

again,

attributing

a

certain type

of creation or a certain

thing that was created by a

God or, you

know, that's being controlled by a

spirit or whatever, like,

and that's mythology.

But

there's

so much that we didn't know

back then.

And this time,

like,

it's, it would be a lot

easier to

not

understand.

And all of a sudden,

here comes this

weird nature experience, like,

okay,

wow, that's really weird.

But I also don't know anything.

Yeah, it's not weird, because

we don't know

anything.

Yeah, that's fair.

So maybe, maybe it was just natural.

Maybe it was just normal for them to know

what it is.

I mean, that's the argument that I

had, like, a

long time ago on this podcast,

like, what is natural

that

is not supernatural and what is

supernatural that is not natural.

It all comes from the same source.

The only difference is

perspective.

And so if your perspective back then

was, oh, God, he's

chilling.

Like, he was, I saw

him on the West

Coast.

like last month.

And oh,

I mean, yeah, demons,

like, they usually show up like

these like little flying bug

things

that are like sort of on fire.

You want to avoid those.

And then the

angels, like, they're kind of like

glow in blue and everything.

They're cool, they're cool.

But also, usually

there's demons around when they're

there.

So,

usually avoid them too.

Yeah.

Right, maybe it's just like you said,

I don't know.

If there's an

animal that has a guitar

neck in his

neck,

and that's not far fetched,

maybe

like

demons and angels flying around

like fairies aren't far

fetched either.

If the Bible throws in

Nephilim

that are

a

cross breed between

fallen

angels and humans,

I

feel like there's not a

lot that could be far

fetched.

Yeah, yeah, honestly.

That's why it's for me

very difficult to digest

the Nephilim

idea.

I think we're kind of already

in the decay portion.

Yeah.

Because we...

Well, how long are we in?

We're like an hour

30.

Yeah.

We're actually ahead of schedule.

Can we come

back to

the

scriptures?

Because we've been

jumping all over the

place with these

questions.

Well, we got into

like advancements

and talking

about

what the

world could have been

like and God being

involved and

just I

guess the involvement of the

spiritual and whatever

else.

I mean, this is,

we are still in the perfume

section.

This is what this podcast

is really about.

Yeah.

Unless you disagree.

Like this is,

we look at

the Bible and we try to dig

deeper.

We try to find that wonder, that

awe.

We try to find that thing that no one

actually

usually thinks

about

but is

distantly related

to it.

You've said this before

where we're looking

at

one of the most

dense summaries

of reality.

And we have to,

we don't have to, but we

get to extrapolate,

we can extrapolate from

a single sentence

hundreds of years

and

millions

and billions of things that

happened.

Obviously we can extrapolate like,

and Billy said

this

and you wouldn't believe what Jabal

said back to him.

Like obviously you can't do

that unless it's like word

for word quoted in the Bible.

But

we

can extrapolate based

on how this is written.

And like, that's the point of the show

of like, this is not just

words.

This is not just a

book.

This is

a

living document

that's written in a

way that

you

can expect to find

more when you

dig

and you try to find the hidden

meaning behind things

and you try to

understand

why something was said

a certain way, why

things weren't said,

why things were said in a

certain order.

Like a whole bunch of different

things that

only

Sherlock would think of,

right?

And this is just a constant

in the Bible.

And that's kind of what the show

is about besides

everything

else that we've talked about in the

past.

But like, this is

amazing,

obviously,

right?

So everything that we've

talked about, it seems like

decay only

because

people

don't read the Bible like this

usually.

This is fun.

This is

interesting.

It's exotic.

It's out there.

Like a lot of it's speculation,

sure.

But like

we're

digesting the

word in a way that

we

are

not

going to forget this.

And we're becoming intimate

with it.

And

who

else

knows

these

weird names?

And that there's the father

of instruments,

bronze and iron and

tents and livestock

and their

mom's

name was Zilla

and

Ada.

And their dad was a

psycho.

Like who knows that kind of

stuff

because people don't think it's

interesting.

And most of the time they're right

because they haven't

dug.

Sure.

But yeah, I say

all that because you say we've already

dug into, or we've

already ended up in the decay.

Well,

I'm

saying that because

we

greatly deviated

from...

We did.

But I'm proving out

that we're still

in the

word.

But it's also where like...

It's where decay has led before.

Yeah.

like that kind of thing.

Yeah.

And I want to talk more

about it.

Oh, you want to?

Yeah.

And there's a table.

And also,

it's also the

idea that there's not much else

that we can say about

instruments.

So spirits,

what else did you want to talk

about

in the decay

portion?

I was just going to get into

mythology.

Mythology.

Writing it down with my giant

pencil.

Mythology.

I can't spell.

All right.

Getting back to the scriptures.

If that's all right with you.

Yeah.

Cool.

So I'm just going to read

where my eyes landed.

Zilla also bore two ball cane.

He was the forger of all

instruments of bronze and

iron.

The sister of two

ball cane was

Nama.

Why is the sister mentioned?

Is this the most worthless sentence

in the entire body?

You know,

when

I saw that, I'm

like,

maybe,

it almost

feels like

when

Moses was writing this,

maybe there was

talk

about, you

know,

because I mean, obviously,

genealogies are

a huge thing in the

Bible.

And so maybe

this

was somewhat relevant

in

all

the talk and all the stories

that have

been around.

And, you know, maybe

the

people that come from this

line,

they know

who Nama

is and, you know,

what

her

offspring were like.

But if it's like a pop culture

reference,

they're like, oh,

Nama?

Wait,

she's the sister.

Oh, like maybe

she's like the

singer.

And then there's like the

instrument maker.

And so basically,

they're just a traveling band.

Yeah.

Nice.

They call themselves

the descendants of Cain.

They're a metal band, actually.

Funny metal band.

That's good.

Because metals of the devil.

I love metal, by the way.

For all those metal fans out there.

Yeah.

Christian metal.

It's good stuff.

I've been to one

metal concert.

Yeah?

Yeah.

One metal Christian concert,

I should say.

Oh.

Well, I was at a Christian music

festival.

So I guess

kind of is a concert.

But kind of not because you can just leave

and go and listen to more music.

So a little bit different.

But

yeah.

This seems like a

throwaway sentence.

Yeah.

But we know that nothing's

throwaway in the Bible.

Everything's there for a purpose.

We say that in our own lives.

Nothing happens on accident.

Nothing's random.

I don't believe in coincidence.

People say that constantly.

We believe it as Christians.

Why don't we believe it here

for this sentence?

No.

Well, that brings up

a good point.

And I think we can actually

close up

this portion by

talking about this.

We're not going to get to...

We're absolutely not going to get to that.

To Lamech?

No.

Holy cow, dude.

We've already been talking for an hour and
a

half.

So what?

What do you mean, so what?

We're not trying to hit a

four hours every single time.

Hey, remember what you said

before we started about,

I don't know if we're actually going

to talk

that long.

Okay.

Like, there's not much to talk

about.

I said I have no idea.

No, you guessed that

there wasn't much to talk about.

I have no idea.

You're not going to admit that before it.

said you We've gotten an

hour and a half out of it.

So...

Yeah.

Yeah, again.

But the

next

portion...

We should not be talking about this on the
podcast.

This needs to be cut out.

Why?

But because...

The point of

having the next portion

in there is

to

just have it as a

backup.

Because that

section

is an entire

episode in and of itself.

Kind of is, yeah.

And so we

can't just go and get

into a whole other episode.

But I'm excited, dude.

I get it.

You want to keep

reading, but

like...

I'm also making fun of you because you
said

this was going to be easy, like quick

thing.

I don't know.

But it wasn't.

Well, it also has

been quicker

than usual.

Well, sure.

That's actually what I meant.

All right.

Okay, I missed you right all the time.

Because normally we

go

30 minutes intro,

hour and a half...

To two hours.

To two hours talking

about whatever it is in the

Bible.

And then we may be throwing

another hour for

decay.

Or half hour.

Decay gets put on the back

burner or

as the side

thing.

Trying not to have that.

Kind of like this lesson.

But here's the thing.

a She's volcano sister.

But here's the thing.

We've kind of touched on

it, but I want to

close this up because we're going to talk
about

this more, I

know, at length.

Cool.

But why is this in

here?

What part?

This whole section?

The portion that we're reading.

19 through 20.

Why is it in

Genesis 4?

Why is it in Genesis?

Why is it in the Bible?

Lamech took two wives.

The two wives and him

had

founders

of

tents,

livestock,

musical instruments

of

strings,

lyre, pipe,

iron,

bronze,

first city.

I don't know.

I mean, we have such a short

amount of verses

that are pointing to

huge advancement

in

people.

Again, not

pointing towards

Neanderthals,

towards people that

only hit things against

rocks and

whatever and get

excited about fire.

Where

these

people are...

It's offensive

to say

at this point.

So

maybe

that's the point?

Well,

I brought

up Israel and them

traveling and

having tents

and

traveling

with their livestock.

I think,

you know,

where does

this

kind of point to

in the future?

Because here's the

thing,

Noah on the

ark, it's not as

though these things just

disappeared.

So there's

this

idea of God

is setting

up

an

idea of where

kind of everything

comes

from.

Right?

So God's

creation,

man's continuation

of God's

calling on

man,

creating from his

creation.

Yes.

So think of it in

the same way

that I talked

about the curses

and how

there's this trickle down

effect that

keeps

building

up and becoming more

and more severe.

Resulting in a lot of death,

resulting in birth

issues and

depression

and all this different stuff.

That's this theme

and it's something that

keeps going and going

and going.

And so we see

the first city,

obviously we have

tons of cities all

over the planet

now.

It's like the basis of

civilization.

It is the basis of

civilization.

We have music

and the impact

that it makes.

I mean, later in the Bible, we

have David who, you know,

he's basically

famous in the church because

he danced and

he played music and,

you know...

He will.

Yeah.

And

we

also have the Psalms

and

we have

this

understanding.

Or, and like in the New Testament,

you know, it says

to,

you

know,

what is it?

Something about spiritual songs and

all that different stuff.

I can't think of that right now.

And spiritual

songs.

Yeah.

I can't remember what was the purpose

of that.

don't I know.

To praise

God or

have

our spirits

lifted or something like that.

I can't remember.

Deep, deep

cut.

Yeah.

But there's this,

that's what it is.

It's like this is the beginning or

this is around the

beginning of

these things.

One also

pointing to

the

capabilities

of man within

a few hundred

years.

But

I think

there's a tiny little

nugget of,

yeah, but look at this.

So there's

the two wives, right?

And then they have these

children who are the

fathers of

these

advancements

in

technology that

are going to carry throughout

the rest of time.

These things haven't gone away.

And, you know,

they train somebody

and those people that

they train somebody and it

just kept going and going and

going and going and going.

What are they bringing with them?

My dad had two wives.

And that's interesting

because

if you

think about the

advancement

of,

or if you think about, let's say

Disney, for instance,

or

like

Walmart, Target,

whatever, like if we,

Amazon,

whatever companies, if we think about

these companies, if we think about when
they

started,

there's this

idea that like

they,

when they started, oh, it was such

a good idea and it was like,

oh, they're doing awesome things.

They're doing good things.

They're trying to fill a

need, blah, blah, blah,

blah.

Oh, but now

they're supporting.

something

bad.

They're doing something bad, blah,

blah,

blah.

And

it's

like, yeah, but

why

on earth do we

think that that wasn't

always there?

And why do we care

about it now?

We care about it now because it's on

display.

But

what

we know that the heart

of man is sinful

and desperately

wicked

and that we don't

even know it

until we know

it.

And

I'm

so inclined to believe

that like,

Jubal, Jubal

and Tubal.

Tubal came.

You can't say that without just making it

with a straight face.

That's ridiculous.

Different times.

But

I'm

so inclined to believe that

like,

where they were

nurtured

carries

into their nature.

And

it

gets carried

into everything that they do.

And the

sin entering the

world

is

the reason for

these types of things.

And then

we

see later on, it's

just a chapter

away.

Like,

everything blows up.

And then we have

the

sons of God or

the Nephilim and

we have,

you know, the

earth needing to be

destroyed.

Right?

And there's just, it's hundreds

of years.

But it started,

you know, it seemed innocent.

We're looking at these things and we're

like, oh, this is so cool.

Like the livestock thing, the tent thing,

the music, the guy that can

play, like, and, and, but

they definitely taught

people.

And there's this sense of

like, yeah, this is really cool.

And yeah, this is because of

who

God is, because He's a

creator God and who

He made us to be in

being made in His image,

but

we

tainted everything

with our

sin.

And, and I mean,

the, these three, they probably

didn't even mean to,

they just live in their lives.

Right?

They're just doing what

God,

you know, the gifts that God gave

them, but they're carrying

this idea.

Like,

if your children,

or if someone's children grow up

with two moms or two dads,

like they're carrying that

throughout the rest

of their lives.

Yeah.

It's like a burden.

Yeah.

And it's really interesting because

you're basically pointing out the

fact that

this

is

like

a

picture of

what God

wished,

like what God intended

in the

garden

was

for creation to be

this way.

But

without

the

two wives,

without the

horribly

arrogant,

cursed

God,

lamec

father,

without the great,

great, great, great grandpa

Cain,

without the,

like just the

rampant sin

that's just everywhere.

And

another

thing that, so it's like this

mix, it's this

horrible

blend of

the

good that could have been.

And

how

inseparably mixed

it is with

the

experience of sin.

Yeah.

Well, like you said, with, you

know, nothing is just

spiritual

and,

or just

physical,

you know, they, they go

together.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And another thing that popped

out to me is why is

God using

Cain's

family and

city as the example?

Like what happened to Adam and Eve

and their family

and the family that

like,

and Seth and like all

those people that were

quote, the good guys.

Right?

Why are we seeing their advancements,

their cities, their whatever?

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, and that's, that's why I

thought of it that way,

because we're

seeing the line of Cain

and sin

taking its

course,

feeding itself or

weaving itself into

everything.

The world itself.

Because we're not looking at Cain.

So that's what you're saying about

Israel

and Noah.

And like, so they're, they've

learned like how to make

tents, how to keep livestock,

how to like play

instruments.

The

talent that

David has of

being good at the lyre

and like pipe and like

all the music

that he's

really

good

at and into.

Like all of that comes

from

the

most sinful family

at the very

beginning of time.

I mean,

kind of.

And you know, it

obviously there there is

a a

decay

of

the

effect that

the sin can have because

obviously

they're

not proclaiming, oh, this

is what my parents were like or

whatever every time, but

you pour yourself

into your work

no matter what it

is.

And whatever it is that

you believe, whatever it is that you

think,

whatever you feel, whatever is going

to be is going to shine

through in that.

And so

we're

looking at the origin of

these things

and

what I'm mostly

saying is that

we

shouldn't be looking at this

and being like, okay, this is

devoid of that

sin.

I don't think that's possible.

I think that it's tied

to it now

because

if

we look at

the ministry of

anyone

on earth,

my mind just goes straight to

Ravi Zacharias.

If we look at his ministry

and then

everything that came out about

him afterwards,

everything he did,

everything,

everything that's tied

to that

organization, every single

person, all of it is

all tainted with

this sin no matter what

and it's going to

be for the

rest

until,

yes, until after

we forget his name,

but

the effect is

still going to be there.

There's still going to be this tiny

little thread and it's

going to be carried

throughout time.

So again, it brings the

question of

why

is this in here?

With all of that in mind.

I thought you just answered.

Now you just saw me.

I did.

I did.

I did.

But there's

a more

specific

reason

and it's

like

the most

obvious,

if you will.

It's the setup for

why we need

God,

why we need salvation.

Part of it, yeah.

Okay.

I guess

more

like

practical.

No, more – It's pretty

practical.

What's the word?

More simple.

So what's the question again?

The question is

why

is this in

here?

This whole mix

of good and

evil that

is

inseparable.

Why is it in there?

That's the question?

Well, mainly this section.

Why is this in

here?

What do you

see?

I mean,

everything is pointing towards

God's

plan,

right?

And I mean,

it's

kind

of

like, duh,

we're reading the Bible.

We're reading about

everything that's leading

up to right now and

whatever.

But

we,

again, get so

caught up in

everything else that's

happening.

I just talked

about sin.

We talked previously

just about

the

livestock and the

tents and the instruments

and

what

they could have possibly

thought.

And we got into

what the world

could have been like and whatever.

But

everything

has to point

to

God's

ultimate plan,

God's glory

for our good, right?

And so everything that

gets allowed

to happen,

everything that's going on here,

even this,

and with

your

point of the fiscal

and the spiritual,

it's inseparable.

All of this

is part

of the

plan.

And there's that trickle

effect that happens.

There's all this stuff getting

carried

down.

And that

doesn't stop

because we see

something that

seems different or

seems

insignificant

or whatever.

For all we know, Nima

is part of that.

And I mean,

she is.

She's in the word of...

The weird sister.

The sister.

That's just randomly mentioned

in there.

She is because she

is in the word of

God.

She's there.

She is part of this plan

somewhere along the

way.

We just don't have

that information right now.

And we don't have all the information

of how this all

takes effect and how

it all plays a part in the

whole thing.

But what we do know

is that

God's plan is in

motion,

was in motion from the very

beginning when

He created

light.

Right?

And so...

So you don't have a specific

reason why besides

everything

that

exists

to

glorify God.

Yeah.

And exists to

exist

exist for

His purposes.

I thought you had a really

specific thing.

Okay, that's why I couldn't

think of

something.

Oh, well.

But,

I mean,

it is,

I guess it's general.

I don't know.

Not good with words,

but I

mean,

everything has to come back to that,

right?

I think

I'm going

to keep bringing it up every

episode because it's like,

well,

I just

remember

this,

which is funny because

I'm the one that's bringing it up.

But I remember it.

We're sitting here talking about all this

stuff and I'm like, okay,

why is this in here?

This is really weird.

But if we can

see how it affects

the rest of time, if

we can see just how it affects

the rest of the Bible,

that means that God

placed this

here

on

purpose,

the creation of

instruments, tents and

livestock or whatever,

for

his

future plan is

everything

else,

where we're at right now.

I mean, you look at the rest of the

Bible and it's basically

more

complex versions of

what we're reading

here.

The least

complex

sin story

is Cain and Abel.

Maybe Adam

and Eve would be the least complex.

But

you

get into the city,

these are complex sins.

It's not that they're sinners

by being the fathers of

these new

things or the

new processes

or

whatever.

It's that

they're

in a sinful

situation.

They're in a sinful city.

Like God told

Cain not to settle down.

And what did he do?

Settle down,

created a city.

There's no evidence that he moved on from

the city.

Nothing says that.

I'm pretty sure.

Hold on.

Uh,

yeah, no, nothing says

in verse

17 that Cain

moved on at all.

So

it's

like sin city.

And it's

complicated because there's

more people.

And it just gets more complicated from

here.

Yeah, there's a

growing sense of

complexity.

And I mean, this is just the

beginning of time.

Right?

And

one

strand breaks out

into a million others.

And it's not hard

to wonder why people get

so lost

now

with

so many

strands

of whatever.

Yeah.

Because everything is imbued with

sun.

Everything.

So I just thought

of gold.

Okay.

Came back.

So you know how

people

think gold is just

there's something innate

about gold and

human nature.

We just

covet it.

We

want

it.

And we just don't know why.

Maybe it's a cultural thing.

Maybe it's aliens

built us

to

make

gold.

I don't know.

Those are looking aliens.

Frickin' aliens.

Come on, man.

I don't know.

Whatever the theory is, for

some reason,

we love

gold.

Yeah.

And my theory of we like

gold because

it's

an immutable

currency.

It's perfect as a

currency.

That

idea

may have come

from this

first city.

And because of

6 ,000, 10 ,000

years later,

everybody just thinks

this is a

part of existence.

This is just like everybody

and their mom,

everybody and their brother

wants

gold.

And we don't know why.

It's pretty.

It's mushy.

It doesn't rust.

But it's kind of heavy.

But other than that,

it conducts electricity.

But we only knew that

maybe 100, 200

years, maybe 300 years

now.

Other than that, it's kind of

annoying.

There's no other good purpose for it.

Why do we like it so much?

Why do we crave it so much?

Why do we kill people for

it?

Where in the heck

did that come from?

And it's

the

same

for

sin.

And I think that's

what this is showing.

It was simple.

Don't eat from the tree.

Yeah,

you did.

Now,

good and bad are going to

become

so

intertwined

that it seems

inseparable

and

indistinguishable.

Just like It's like we have no idea

why we love gold.

gold so much that we're willing

to kill people over it.

Because all it is

is just a metal

and it's kind of annoying

honestly.

There's no real good uses

for it's not strong.

The only good use

is immutable

value.

That's it.

Why are we sinful?

It used to be simple.

Just like gold

was just

a immutable metal

that would be a good

use for currency.

And nothing else.

It used to be simple.

Now it's intertwined.

It's like

tent making.

It's livestock.

It's musical instruments.

It used to be simple.

And now we see the

ideas of all

those things hundreds,

thousands of

years in the future

in the

most complex

iterations.

Because all of this is just

iterating on God's creation.

Iterating on sin.

Iterating on gold.

Iterating on tents.

Livestock of iron,

iron, iron, bronze, etc.

Iterating on multiple

wives.

Iterating on cities.

Iterating on wandering.

Iterating on murder.

Iterating on curses.

Literally Lamek is like

I'm going to iterate

and I want

70 times the curse.

Right?

Like guys

complete

dunce.

Yeah.

But

this

is showing how quickly

it

became

too

complex for

anyone,

any man to

ever separate it

back into good

and evil.

And it was within a few

hundred years.

Less than that.

Like with Abel and Cain.

Yeah, Cain and Abel,

Adam and Eve.

And then just from there it

becomes infinitely

more complex.

And the only thing,

the only hope that we have

is that

God would come

and unravel

the mess that we've

created.

This mess

that's

infinitely

complex.

Totally –

I'm going to make a board.

Unravelable.

Fantastic.

Thank you.

And the only way you could do that is

by being born out

of man.

You can't have that

sin nature.

You can't.

There's something more to

it.

What were you going to say?

What I think about

often

– so,

gold has been worshipped.

And I can't

imagine that

its

value isn't

somewhat

closely tied

to that,

especially early on because

of how it shines

and how it

is like the sun and

people worshipped the sun because

it's

powerful.

It's in the sky.

Imagine

someone

from year

being

transported to the future

like 4

to 6 ,000 years

in the future and they're

worshipping the sun in Egypt and they're

like – Even

I know that God

created – why are you

worshipping a thing?

Like they're not

worshipping things.

Well, we don't

– Helios is not

in this text.

But we see the

golden calf later

and its

things.

Yeah,

because sin has become

hyper

-complex.

But

I

think

about

–

in

the Old

Testament,

curse

is

anyone who hangs upon a tree.

Right?

God curses anybody that

hangs upon a tree?

I think it's in a

prophecy somewhere.

I'm just saying that because –

I'm pretty sure.

Yeah, God says

– well, a prophet

says, right?

Yeah.

Cursed is anyone who

hangs upon a tree.

It's Isaiah, right?

I think so.

But I think about

how physical

objects – because

we think about the fruit

and how

there is a

power

or an effect ascribed

to it that is far

beyond just it being a

fruit.

And I don't

think that those effects

go away

necessarily.

The effects of the fruit.

Well, just the effects on

something else.

On anything.

So, like, you don't stop

being cursed

if you are

hanging on a tree.

Granted, that's pointing to Jesus.

But if

you go

and

try and

recreate that

– Regret the curse?

No,

recreate hanging on a tree

to

be like Jesus.

There is

something

special there

that, you know,

is

a

curse.

Like now?

Like at all.

What do you mean?

I'm I'm lost.

I'm saying saying – that there is an

effect,

that there could be an effect

described to

items,

to things.

And when you

use them,

when you

begin

to treat

them at

higher

than God,

there is an effect

placed on them.

So the fruit...

A spiritual effect.

A spiritual effect.

So the fruit was still

around.

Yeah.

You know,

maybe it was just fruit.

We don't know.

But

it

would still have a

negative effect.

It would still have some sort

of spiritual effect

on you.

Possibly the same with gold.

Like the idea of,

I

think

of Pirates of the Caribbean.

Why not?

And the first

movie, there's these gold

coins.

Because if you take one of the gold

coins, you're cursed.

You become undead.

And I think

gold could be

kind of like that.

Gold is the standard now because

we worship it,

technically.

And anybody

that touches gold is

just...

They're kind of

tempted towards that.

Same thing with if you

pick up a Ouija board

and

you

think, oh, I'm going to use

this thing or,

you know, anything

that's tied

to

sin

is

going to

lead to sin.

It's going to lead to something bad.

It's not going to lead to something good

because what's tied

to it is bad.

But

same

thing with the things of God,

right?

So we have His holy

word.

And

we

also see a

taking back

of

these

things

that have been given a

bad wrap, if you

will.

Like the tabernacle

is made of gold,

entirely of gold

to hold

or

for the Spirit of

God to dwell.

That's a taking back

of gold if

it's tainted.

Didn't your sister say that was the

tent?

Whatever.

The Ark of the Covenant.

The temple

was

highly...

Like a huge portion of it

was gold.

I get your point.

But just,

I don't know.

That's a thought that

comes to mind that,

you know,

if God

sets

a certain effect on

something,

I don't think that effect would go away

necessarily.

I almost think

of it like artifacts

in a

sense.

Like in the end, John.

No,

I can see that because

who is actually holding

the entire earth together?

Yeah.

Still.

Yeah.

God.

Because it's our daily breath.

And there's also a sense

of who is going

after those things,

the people that are going to be tempted
towards

that sin.

Yeah.

Why else would

they seek it

out and feel

a need for

it?

You know?

What does God

lead us to?

Himself.

It leads us to Himself and who

else?

People.

And, you know, if it

is

right,

you know, what does He do?

He has us build things,

build an altar

to

Him.

He has us build the Ark.

The Ark of the Covenant.

He has us do

certain things

for His

purpose, write letters.

You know?

So there's this

idea of like, okay, what

are the things that God,

and again, this, you know, this

ties heavily into

is God

interacting with these people

or is there,

is it, is it, is God

interacting with a lot of

people at this time or

is He still fairly

exclusive?

Is He dealing with the people

that actually want to

deal with Him more?

I would say the latter.

And

if,

which of those effects is

taking place

and

if it is

fairly

exclusive,

I mean, God isn't probably

talking to people that

really don't want to talk to Him.

But, you know, I think about

Christians in America, like,

you know, they want to

talk to Him, they want to have

relationship with Him, but

they are

in this

weird limbo like, oh,

I'm okay just sitting in church.

I don't know.

Maybe there's some, some, some effect

like that.

But,

you know, if it

is really exclusive,

you know,

when are they making things

and why?

Because if they're not making it for

God, if they're not making it for the

purposes of God,

what are they making it for?

Christians in America?

No, no, I'm talking about,

I'm talking about, I'm talking about

in this time.

Oh, okay.

When things originated,

why are they making it?

To distract themselves?

themselves,

to have

fun,

to

feel

powerful,

to be

famous.

What is it?

Because it

doesn't say that God

said, go and

make this

thing.

God is very explicit when He wants you to

do something.

I

don't

know.

That's a weird concept

because then we have

Paul.

Yep.

Tentmaker.

Tentmaker.

Dude.

Why

is

he doing it?

For the glory of God.

He's doing it to

proclaim Christ.

To be less of a burden,

specifically.

Well,

to be less of a burden, but

for the purposes

of

God.

He wasn't perfect, but

yeah.

No, he wasn't perfect,

but in

his letters, that's what

he's talking about.

He's saying that all of

these things should be for this.

And so the tent making was

for that so that he can

be

useful for the

purposes of God because

that's how God

set

things up for him.

All the way back to

Jabal.

I just made that connection right now.

That's absolutely wacky.

Well, I'll say it one more time because I
think I

missed it.

Jabal.

Peter was a tentmaker.

Jabal was the father.

Sorry.

Paul was a tentmaker.

Jabal was the father

of tents.

Oh, you just now made that

connection?

I'm just now like

there's a through line

here.

connection I like made that Wow.

a minute ago.

Crazy.

Well, that

hargens

back to the idea

that everything is

very

complex now.

And then there's the idea of like how do

you...

If going back in time

and undoing things

was possible, how

would you do that?

Well, you would need to

have enough energy

to undo

every single

decision.

Yeah,

everything.

Have enough

energy and enough

versions of you

that think the exact

same way.

Well,

it's hard to

explain.

I was reading a book

that

discussed

like how do you go back

in time?

And it's

essentially

the further you go

back in time, the harder it

is to go further.

No.

Because there's

more to undo.

It

takes

more energy to

undo

all of the

things

that have been done.

I'm probably explaining

it horribly.

camera My just turned red.

My camera just turned red.

Your camera turned around?

My camera just turned red.

Oh, it did?

Yeah.

Wonder why.

Let's find out.

But...

Oh,

where is OBS?

Sorry, guys.

I mean, your

camera's

still up.

I'm still moving?

Yeah, I'll click it again.

Is it good now?

So red.

Weird.

Yeah, I can see you.

You're fine.

That's just not gonna follow me.

Yep.

Weird.

You may power cycle it.

I can cut this out.

Still not following?

Nope.

Still red.

No, I clicked

normal tracking.

It's probably moving.

There it is.

Back.

Yeah.

It's back, baby.

Boom.

Cool.

All right, where was I?

Oh,

yeah.

I'm doing time.

Yeah.

So

it's...

I don't know if I'm explaining that
properly,

but the

idea is it's infinitely

harder the

further you go

back in time.

But you think about

trying to keep up with a

lie,

it's kind of the same

idea.

The further you...

The longer you hold on to

a lie, the more complex

it gets.

And so

why

not the same thing with Sin?

And I mean, I

think that answers your question of

why in

the heck is this

said

that way?

Yeah.

Why is it even included in

here?

To highlight the complexity?

To...

Yeah, I don't know.

But to your point, do

objects have

and hold spiritual

properties just

innately?

That's a weird question.

I wasn't on board

until you talked about Ouija boards

though.

Yeah.

Because I think

objects like

that are

dangerous.

You don't want to get involved

with the Ouija board.

I don't want to get involved with the
Ouija

board because it's...

Like the board

itself, what it's made of is not

necessarily bad.

But

for

some reason,

spirits

get

involved with Ouija boards

and that's what I'm trying to

avoid.

Like, not that I don't think

I'd like

I don't,

not that I don't think that God

would be able to help me

defeat those spirits.

It's just I don't want to

invite that in.

I don't want to be in a bad neighborhood

if I don't have to.

Yeah.

Well, and it brings

another point

of,

and again,

on Cosmos talks about this.

But,

you know,

we

feel

a presence,

right?

We can feel the

presence of God.

We know when He's

here, when He's

present, when He's like,

when you go to church

sometimes,

you're like, yeah,

the spirit of God is here.

But technically, He's always

here.

Right.

But, you know,

there's certain

times

or whatever, but like,

when it comes to certain

places,

you drive past and you're like,

I

don't feel good about this

place.

I don't want to go

there.

And then you hear things about it and

you're like, yeah, that makes a lot of
sense.

And it's stuff that we can't

really explain.

And

We sound crazy if

we try.

And I bring

up

church

and I bring up like

holy and good

things because it's not

just with the bad.

We talk about the bad a lot

when it comes to

these types of feelings

because

It's more obvious to us.

It's more obvious and we want to

avoid it.

But, you know,

it's like the

Bible when you pick up the Bible.

Something about it.

There's something about it.

There really is.

And there's, I mean,

when non

-believers are like, if I had

touched the Bible, I'd burn up

or my eyes.

The idea of holy water.

I'm sure as

a non -Christian, you walk into a

church and you feel uncomfortable.

Is that a spiritual feeling?

I absolutely think so.

Another idea that I just

had is

flags.

It's just material,

but it represents something.

Is that spiritual?

Like, an American flag,

if it falls on the floor,

you're supposed to burn it.

That

seems kind

of nuts if

there's not,

like, I know it's,

people argue it's not

a spiritual thing, but it's a

deeper meaning.

Well, I mean, people

worship

this country.

Yeah, nationalism.

People worship their countries.

So, I mean,

if that's not

spiritual,

I don't know what it is.

So, I think

what we're hearing is

that

everything

is

spiritual,

but not everything

is spiritually

affecting

you and me.

Yeah.

Not everyone is necessarily

affected

by it, but,

and, you know,

I say this all the time,

knowledge is

responsibility, right?

So, the reason we're not going to pick up
a Ouija

board and start messing with it is

because we know.

If you see a

flag and

it's on the floor and you don't

know About that rule.

About that rule, you're going to put it
back

up.

And, you know,

there is a sense

of ignorance

that

isn't

necessarily like,

you're not necessarily

condemned

because

you're ignorant.

When you find out about it, though,

you're more condemned.

So,

ignorance is not an

excuse to break the

law.

No.

Never has been, never will be.

It just makes you more guilty.

Yeah.

And like a cop is still going to pull

you over and be like,

you did this wrong.

And, you know, you need to be

told and you need

to face whatever

consequences.

But there's leniency,

right?

You know,

it's

somewhat

the same with God.

We're all sinners.

So, we all deserve hell.

So, like, that's not really

off the table.

That's not going anywhere.

He's not lenient about that.

But, you know, if you don't

know,

it's you still sinned.

But,

you know, God isn't

looking at you

like,

actually, He's not looking at you

any differently.

But the church, the

people shouldn't look at you

any differently.

For doing X, Y, and Z,

they should still

tell

you that you did something wrong.

They, you know, you still have

consequences that you need

to face.

Is there cause for leniency?

It depends on the situation.

But like, if you're

a

constant

offender of different

types of sins,

yeah, you're going to get more than a

slap on the wrist.

But,

you

know,

knowledge, knowing what

something is

about, knowing about a

place.

all these different things.

I

would

say unless you're going to

this place and

you're walking around it seven

times and praying over it

and trying

to

bring

down the walls of Jericho

because you

want the Spirit of God to

dwell in this place, not

evil,

not the devil,

what other reason

do you have for

approaching it?

Apart from ignorance.

Approaching what?

Approaching an evil

place, a place that you

know is evil.

You don't have a

reason apart

from proclaiming

God.

So this is really interesting.

I think we could probably

stop

here.

We just discuss

the

possibility

that

objects

have

innate spiritual

capabilities,

tendencies,

properties,

whatever.

There's something innately

spiritual about

every

single thing

like this pencil,

like this water bottle.

Like this hat

has more

spiritual significance

because it's actually

God's word on

it.

It says from beginning

to end, he has got

Psalms 90

verse

2.

You and I have

more

spiritual

significance

because

we

have a

spirit, we have a soul.

But

this

is what I'm getting to.

The idea of

it's not fair

that Adam

send and now I

go to hell.

What if

just

like

objects

can be

imbued with a

spiritual

property?

Humans can also

be imbued with a spiritual

property.

And it doesn't matter

that

as a

baby,

I had

technically not

send.

I was not

guilty of breaking

any law that I knew

of,

but I was still a

sinner

spiritually

by

property.

At that point, it's not about

fairness.

It's about the laws of the

universe.

It's just about how things work.

So

do

you have any idea

what it is

I'm trying to lead into?

No.

It's definitely not mythology anymore.

Okay.

So it's a topic that

I actually,

funny enough, wrote

down

for this

specific episode.

Science behind hard

coding our brains.

Hard coding.

Yeah.

Remember when we talked about

what

you have a specific name

for.

Epigenetics?

Epigenetics.

Wait

a

minute.

Hold on.

We are two and a half hours

in.

Do you want to go another hour?

I mean, you said we

technically haven't done decay

yet.

So I said that.

Just now.

You said that when I tried

to move on to decay.

That's fair.

You said we're...

That's fair.

I want to get into this.

been have of sort We like hovering around
the world.

Here we are an hour

later.

Okay.

Let's talk about epigenetics.

Okay.

What do you want to talk about?

We just

talked about it.

Do you want me to kick it off?

But who is...

So the

through line

is

what you just said.

Yeah.

Because what you just said

is that the way that the

universe works,

how genetics

works

in a sense,

and how

things can be imbued with

spiritual properties.

Well,

and the thing that I've been saying about

sin and

how it gets

passed down,

not nature

and nurture.

Epigenetics, I think, is

an incredible through

line of

why it makes

sense that we are

born

with a sin

nature.

I think it makes more

spiritual sense

to think

that

we are

imbued with

spiritual properties.

Yeah.

And that

things like

flags

and

they have meanings,

but that meaning

is

just a

non

-spiritual way of saying

something

has

a spiritual

attribute,

a spiritual property.

Because when

the Bible talks about

Adam's descendants

and then

Jesus being the

better Adam,

it's

talking about

a

representative of

a a company,

a representative of of a company.

a group of people.

Adam represented

all of mankind

as the first human.

And Jesus

represented

perfectly

righteous

mankind

as the

first God -man

that,

you know,

dealt with all of the

mess

that

was infinitely difficult

to

unwind,

right?

And so,

they're both spiritual

fathers.

They're both

representatives,

just like we have

representatives in

our government.

By the way, you just said spiritual
fathers,

and I instantly thought about

our fathers of

tense

instrument

playing and

treating

spiritual

fathers.

It's interesting.

Yeah,

So, there's physical fathers and

spiritual fathers?

Are they different?

Why are they different?

I said, are they different?

I would think so,

just like you can

categorize different physical

things.

Yeah.

But it's not a separate

category.

They're all categories

of father

ship,

right?

But you've

got the

representative of

all mankind

without Jesus

is

Adam,

and he sent.

And it's like

if

the

president of – I'm

stealing this from someone – but

if the president of the US

said that we're at war with

a country, that means

you and me as US

citizens are at war with that

country.

Yeah.

We don't get a say in

it.

Yeah.

It's not fair.

We might have to

fight in

this war, and it's not

fair.

We might die in that war, and it's

not fair.

But because

the

president is the

leader

of the country,

we now have

that

property

imbued to us,

that property of

we're at war with this country.

Right.

And we want to nowadays

say that that's not

a spiritual imbumen.

That's not a spiritual

thing.

That's just how

the world works.

And I'm saying,

exactly.

Yeah.

Like, that's the exact

same thing.

Spiritual things

are

meaningful.

They're invisible.

Adam was the representative,

is the representative

of most of

mankind now, but

was the original

representative of mankind.

He sinned,

and therefore

all of

mankind was

in

the state of sin

in the view

of God.

Just like a country

can be in a state

of war against

another.

Same exact thing.

Just because

say we get married and we have

kids and the war is still

raging,

just because the kid that we

have

is born

without

knowing there's a war going on,

doesn't mean that kid

isn't going to grow up and fight in

that war.

Doesn't mean that kid is

not

part

of a war,

even though they're just a kid.

Same exact principle

of

being

spiritually

endowed

with the worst

endowment ever

of sin.

We have a

sin property,

and it doesn't matter if it's fair or

not.

It's just

how

the world works.

And I feel like that

actually

makes more

sense

than saying

that we inherit

the spiritual

traits

of sinfulness

via

epigenetics, via

our family

through genetics.

Right.

But the issue

– we still haven't

explained what epigenetics is,

but – Well, I'm assuming

that people know.

Do you want to explain what it is?

I cannot explain what it is.

But before you do that,

the point that I'm trying to make

is God uses

the physical

to

represent the spiritual.

Right?

So,

again,

you keep saying this,

but you cannot separate

them.

And so,

the idea behind

epigenetics is that

behavior

creates something that gets

passed down, creates a

genetic

hard

coding

to

some degree.

Yeah.

Can I say something?

Yes.

Can you remember what you're about to say?

No.

Okay, hold on.

Give me a second while I write this down.

Um,

and

that

is a

behavior that gets

passed down.

And And behavior –

is

a reflection of

the heart,

which means it's a reflection of the

spiritual.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

It's the

physical

embodiment

of the spiritual

itself.

Yeah.

So if you could explain that, because

that'd be great.

Yeah.

So let me

–

because what you said sort

of ties into what I was going to say.

So just

like the spirit

can't

be – like the spiritual

can't be

torn from the

physical.

Think of it as like a different

dimension.

Just because we can't

see that dimension

doesn't mean it doesn't

exist.

What we see and what we

experience does not define

reality.

Because we don't know

about something

doesn't mean that it

doesn't exist.

Yeah.

Any scientist would say the same.

Yeah.

Well, and it's why

speculation

is important in

a lot of ways.

Because

otherwise – because,

I mean, speculation

is based on

curiosity.

Curiosity that's been thought about

and

built

on a little bit.

And it's through curiosity

that

we

discover

more,

right?

And that we

come to the – to

hard facts

eventually, hopefully,

at some point.

Like discovering

gravity.

By the way, how

do you discover something that already

exists?

Or has always

existed?

Yeah.

Well – How do you open your

eyes to something like that?

How do you

stand

there, become the father

of something

that

you –

that everybody has

understood innately.

Yeah.

Because

we

fall

down.

I guess it's the same thing.

Yeah.

I guess it's the same thing as last week

when – well, was it last week?

No, I'm thinking of the show I'm

editing right now.

The idea

that God created

rest

because

he rested.

Yeah.

And he was the first one to do it.

Yeah.

And we

just do

it and we just experience

it.

But we don't really think about

it.

And when we thought about

it that way,

probably the same way that Newton

thought about gravity.

He was just being super

meta,

like just

in

awe of God's creation.

Dude.

Right?

Yeah.

Digesting it in a way that no one

had yet.

Yeah.

In a way that

could be useful

in

a practical

application.

Kind of in a theoretical

thought.

Yeah.

Kind of in that same

thought when we were

at community on Thursday.

Yeah.

And I brought

up,

you know,

what God created on the first

day because

one of my favorite topics.

He did?

Yeah.

Was that part of that?

No.

You were talking to – Other people.

Yeah.

But I brought it up and

one

of the girls was like,

yeah, but time is

–

No.

And

–

But

because

things

are happening, right?

Yeah.

So our –

The way that I put it is that

God created

our sense of

time

because

our sense of time is based off

of the sun and

light and whatever.

God's sense of

time is very different.

So he's outside of our time, but

time was already

a thing

because things were happening

and

like there were moments,

right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a good way to say it.

I thought that was crazy.

Yeah.

No.

She said that to me and I'm like, you

know what?

I feel like a dummy

because that would have

been so fun

to

get

more into the weeds

about time when

we talked about it.

You think about relativity.

When someone is

going into a black hole,

they slow down from your

perspective.

I just watched

–

I'm not going to

say the movie name.

But I just watched a

sci -fi movie

and

they fly

to this

other star system and it

takes 11 .6 years

for them to get

there.

But in Earth time,

it was like 30 years

or maybe not 30

years, longer.

Yeah.

Right?

Oh, no, I think it was like three

years travel to

the outside star system,

11 years in Earth time.

So how is that even

possible?

Like how is it

possible that from

our perspective, a day is a

day and to

God, a day is

a thousand years.

Yeah.

I know that that's just poetry

and we shouldn't take that

as as

literal.

But also, like you

said,

God had a sense of time

before He created

time for us.

That's a good point though.

There was time,

but God created

more time.

Because technically,

the way that

time is for us

now, and the

calendar, for instance,

totally a

cultural

construct

that we

threw together

because

it made sense to us.

And some of it

could have been

based off of biblical

things, but kind

of not.

And then there's other

calendars that are based off of

other things.

And the calendar thing

hurts my brain.

I don't enjoy

that.

Because in my mind,

I'm like, let's just have,

why couldn't we just have had one

thing?

And it's just, that's just how it

is.

But anyways.

Because you got to agree on a

standard.

Yeah.

And thankfully,

we do.

And the time

system

is loosely based

on natural

events that God

created.

Like different natural

heartbeats that God gave

us to

make measuring time

easily

something that we

can standardize.

But yeah, that

girl's

got a good point.

Maybe we should bring her on.

She's gone.

Gone.

Maybe next time.

But

epigenetics.

Yes.

Oh, well,

I didn't even finish the spiritual

and physical.

So it's like different dimensions.

We can't deny the fact that

the spiritual

could exist.

And that when we talk

about something having meaning,

that that also

could just

be

spiritual.

Meaning could

be spiritual.

Emotions,

abstract ideas.

Like abstract thought

is not

physical.

Like theoretical is

not physical.

How is it a stretch

to say

spiritual

is

non

-existent

if we

can think of things

that aren't physical

already?

And who would have say

that

the spiritual is any

different than

imbued meaning?

The meaning that's on this hat.

Meaning that

I'm

my father's son.

Meaning that you and I are

good friends.

The meaning that we're both

children of God and we're

both saved.

The meaning that

we

get from Jesus dying

on the cross for our sins.

And us being

represented by Him now.

Every sin that we commit

now and

back then and

forever is

now on His shoulders.

Whether we

want to give it to Him or not.

Oftentimes we want to take the

responsibility for our own sins.

But

it

doesn't matter.

There's all these

spiritual

meanings

that

we have and we

love to separate it

into

spiritual, non

-spiritual.

But it's all the same.

And let me try to tie this into

epigenetics.

We'll see if I can do it.

I don't think I can do it.

I'll just explain epigenetics.

Epigenetics is

essentially

you've got this,

you've got genes that

you get from your mommy and your daddy

when

they love each other

and they

make you from

kissing

and

stuff.

Anyways,

DNA.

The DNA that you

have

that creates

is the instructions that create

you as

you are.

Tells all the cells what to

be and where

and what to do.

That entire instruction

set is in every single

cell in your body.

I'm pretty sure.

I could be wrong about that.

But

the

point is there's

cells that only use

tiny little bits

of the DNA

to express

the job that they're supposed

to do.

And

trying

to figure out which

direction to

go with this.

So think of

DNA

as in genetics

as DNA.

DNA is

information

explaining how your

body is to be

built and

how it's supposed to

run.

How do you store

information

usually?

You store it well

before the internet, you would store

it in books.

You would store it in libraries.

You store the books in libraries.

Nowadays, I guess you could

say we store the

data in data

centers

and the same

sort of concepts.

But for books, it's

a lot easier for people to understand.

Think of

when you enter

the library.

the books

that are right at the door

are the easiest ones

to access.

So those are the ones that are read the

most.

The further you go into

the library,

where there

are no exits,

the more unlikely

those books have been

read.

When you talk about

the books that are in the

back of the library

that aren't even publicly

accessible, those

are

never read.

They have been and they will

be, but they're

back there.

They are

deep

storage.

Same thing

happens with DNA.

DNA is just a whole bunch

of tiny little strands of

molecules,

huge oversimplification.

What happens

is they

get bunched up into a ball.

I'm making a ball here.

Give me some time.

Okay.

Here we are.

Yeah.

This is DNA.

Nice.

So

the

stuff on

the outside of the ball

is the easiest

to access.

And so that's the

genes that are

expressed

most

often.

The stuff that's at the center

of the ball of DNA,

which am I pointing at the center?

Yeah.

Sort of.

The stuff in the center

is

very difficult to

access because what you got to do is take

that ball and

take the center

and unravel

it and have that

center be

on the outside.

It's a long process.

Oops.

Epigenetics

is

essentially the idea

of your

parents'

cells going through the

process of

unraveling that

center

and

having those

genes on the outside

or more accessible.

What this

usually is called, and

we're going to fact check the ****

out of this

just to make sure I'm not

pulling up

random stuff that's

not true.

What this

is

is usually we have the ability

to adapt

to

a lot of different

scenarios.

And that's why my

skin color is white

-ish.

And that's why we have

people with darker

skin colors

in

Africa, for example.

And we've got,

I think Eskimos

are darker

skinned, right?

I think so.

I think they are.

Yeah.

Probably the reason

being is there's so much sun

reflecting off the white snow,

right?

I don't know.

Their skin has to

protect itself with the

melanin.

There's other things of like

why are our

foreheads

taller?

Why do we have

thicker hair?

Why do we have thinner hair?

Why do we have less hair on our

body?

More hair on our body?

Do

some

people have brown eyes, blue

eyes?

Why do some people have

earlobes that separate

and some

don't?

They're attached.

Like all these different little

things are

tiny

little genetic differences of

how

our bodies are expressed.

What's nuts

is our behavior

is

determined on that too.

So the way that our

genes are

expressed

show up

in our behavior.

The way that we think, the way

that we do things, the

way that we behave,

the way that we socialize, like

are you an introvert or you

an extrovert?

That's largely based on

your genetics,

right?

The crazy thing

about epigenetics

is

the

idea that sin can be

passed down

genetically.

Not sin necessarily,

but the

ease of

acting out a

specific sin

can be passed

down.

And here's the,

not necessarily proof,

but everybody's heard this before

of

I

don't drink

because

alcoholism

runs in my family.

Like I said, not evidence,

but this is

a good

call out that everybody would

probably relate to.

Right.

Or like we hear about the Coke

babies, Coke babies all

the time.

Yeah, exactly.

Or

like

when I think

of this concept, I think about

like

a lady from

my church,

she's

adopted.

She's not known her parents

ever.

And

she gets to

meet them, gets to meet her birth

parents, all this stuff.

And

her

husband

noticed Notice

that

her

dad or whatever

is packing

his

suitcase a specific

way.

A way that

he's only ever seen

her,

his wife do.

And they're both

watching now

her

dad do this and they're

like,

that's

insane.

That

is a

like to the

T, like every little

placement of every little

thing.

Like that's not

original

to her.

Right?

It came from it

absolutely came from

her father.

Yeah.

And something that she could have

never guessed

or known

or

understood.

But like,

how's that possible?

And in my head,

this shouldn't be.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like that's not that doesn't

make any sense.

But you see,

like I've seen

one

of our mutual friends,

I see his son.

Yeah.

Doing certain things and

I pointed it out to him,

which was a mistake because it

stressed him out.

But

I

was like, hey, you notice,

you know, he does he

does this thing when he's like

kind of like

self soothing, he's stressed

out.

And I'm like, yeah, you

know, you do that too.

And he's like,

what are you talking

about?

And I'm like,

oh, I just

exposed

way

too much.

But but it's like,

in that case, it's like,

yeah, his son could have watched

this.

But I don't

think that kid is really thinking

about it, you know,

like, I think he's just kind of doing

it.

And,

you know,

there's a specific way that he's

doing it, but it's like he didn't

just he wasn't standing in

the mirror like, oh, let me like

squeeze my hands

exactly in the same

like form in which my dad

does.

It's like, no, like,

that's some weird

and like

inherent thing that he's

doing based off of.

And it's not it's not

like the kids

program to do that exact

thing.

Yeah, it's just that it's

easier.

Yeah, to do that.

Yeah.

So maybe it's a

combination of

the fact that it's

easier to do that because of the

epigenetics of a

DNA that makes that a lot

easier is on the

outside of the DNA

ball.

But also,

maybe it's a combination of that

plus noticing

his dad's mannerisms.

Sure.

Right.

And so it could be the combination.

But the fact that you have a friend,

the whole like

adopted thing where she's

never met him before,

did not grow up with them.

Yeah.

And they're both adults now.

And he packs his suitcase

in the same exact

oddball way

that she does.

Yeah.

Like that's

that's nuts.

I've never heard of anything like that.

And maybe that's coincidence.

But I mean,

I've

heard of so many,

like,

we didn't know each other.

But we're related.

Dang, like, that's my father.

That's, you know, my sister, whatever.

And then you meet and

it's Aaron, then they meet and

it's like,

like, what's your favorite color?

And it's like,

what's that's so

weird?

What you know, do you like

coffee?

Do you do this?

Do you do that?

You know, how do you react in

this in this

situation?

How do you think about this?

Ball one, it's like the amount

of things that line up.

Yeah.

And it's not everything,

obviously, because there are things

that you deviate from.

But like, like you said,

it's easier.

So like, you know,

alcoholism running in your

family,

you start drinking, it's like, oh, this

is really easy.

I can just jump in.

Yeah.

Because it feels extra,

extra good.

Yeah.

It feels way better than

someone

who grew up in a family

that they just

they do not like

taste of alcohol.

Yeah.

So that gene is

expressed where

you,

you, whereas this other

family, you drink

alcohol and your

brain goes,

yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So

it's

which, which

makes me think, yeah.

What does it make

you

think?

Yeah.

hard.

I it's mean,

You know, some of that information

gets

past.

I mean, the fight.

Yeah, the fight.

Yeah.

Because, you know, maybe you know, what
else?

Yeah.

Because your body has

to unfold

that

DNA.

Yeah.

And then all the cells that

were expressed the wrong way

have to die.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm probably getting in

the weeds here.

Like, this is like, it's really

difficult to understand biology.

Yeah.

But there's,

there's these

correlations

that are

hard to ignore.

Yeah.

And to be clear, correlation

is not causation,

certainly.

But it's really hard to

ignore these things.

Yeah.

And.

Um,

and

I'm

pretty certain that there's,

uh,

actual,

if not causation,

there's close,

as close as you can get

to causation of

epigenetics,

making it

so

that a family curse

is

a family curse.

So

for

example,

if I have a

child after going

through,

um,

an addiction

and I,

I have the child

while I'm in the addiction,

will that child

be

more

predisposed

to that addiction

than if I

conquer the

addiction,

I get over it for

several years, and then

I have that child.

Is that child going

to have a

better

foundation

to stand on

when it comes to

avoiding that addiction?

And my

thought

is

if you

wrap up your

addiction

or

you wrap up your bad habit

or you wrap up whatever it

might be,

and then you have a

child,

that child's going to have

that new DNA that

you've chosen to

express.

Just

like,

just like,

uh,

we can

adapt quickly to

certain scenarios,

right?

There's some things that we

can't adapt, uh,

except for over

generations.

Um, but there's

other things which I'm

blanking on right now that

we can adapt, like,

very quickly.

Like calluses,

that's a quick one.

Yeah,

right?

Like you lift a bunch or

you use your hands a bunch and you

develop calluses to protect

your skin.

And do you do that

on purpose?

No, your body just knows, okay, we need

more dead skin here.

Let's produce more.

So same thing with

behavior, same thing with

physical

expression,

same thing with behavior

expression,

which is nuts.

So why did you want to bring that up?

A genetics?

Well, because like I said,

at the beginning, the, the

through line is

that, um,

the through line is that

it makes sense that we were

born into sin.

Yeah.

Not only

in a spiritual

sense, though,

very obviously in a

spiritual sense, but

you

know,

our

bodies

carry

our

unique

qualities

and

our

unique behaviors.

And so

though,

yes, it makes sense

in nature,

both on, in a spiritual

and the physical,

but it also makes sense

how God

tells us to

handle it,

which is

to

meditate

and

to keep his

commandments.

Because when you meditate on

his word meditate, yeah,

sorry,

meditate on his word

and keep his

commandments.

And this idea of that

religiosity

behind

keeping his commandments

and, and whatever

is,

is

a wrong

thinking because it's not

a religious act.

It is a good act

focused on

the idea that we are

trying, we desire

to pass

down to

every generation

Christ.

Right.

And, and not

only

in

our minds

and

in our faith,

but in our

bodies, right?

Because it's bought heart,

soul, mind and strength.

It's everything.

And so this idea of

epigenetics, in my mind

is a reflection of,

yes, we chose

to,

um,

we chose sin, we chose

to sin, we chose to

continue in

sin,

but we can

choose in

Christ

through,

you know,

through the Holy Spirit, we

can choose

to wrap it

up to, well,

to, to, to,

to, to flip the

script and make it for

God.

Right.

Because the perspective is

important, right?

I can do something

and have it

not be for God.

And, and,

but if I do it for God

and I continue doing

that for God, it is going to

become easier.

Right.

And, you know, and

the same idea

passes

along when

you're evil.

When you do evil,

it becomes easier to...

But

same...

When your children watch

what you

do, right,

in a very

clear

physical sense,

they're...

You're passing down to

them, you know, what

you're doing.

But it just makes...

It makes

much...

It makes a lot of sense to

me that on

a molecular level,

it would also be

passed down

because what you

do now

matters

in the future.

Because God doesn't call

you to be a good husband

tomorrow.

He doesn't call you to be a

good...

He doesn't call you to be faithful

tomorrow.

He doesn't call you to,

you know,

pick up your cross tomorrow.

He calls you to it right

now because it

matters later.

And because

right

now is all you have.

Yeah.

And it just...

It just all fits

together in my

mind in the

whole...

Because, yes, it

isn't, you know,

flesh and blood that we are fighting

against.

But flesh and

blood is what it is coming

through.

And we have to

understand that,

yes,

it is spiritual.

But if we ignore what

is going on

physically...

Especially

now,

in this day and age, this

science that you're talking

about

is...

Keep

using

this word and I can't think of it

right now.

But it is...

It's impactful

in this day and

age when we're so focused

on these hard facts,

right?

And now there's

this epigenetics

thing that's

like, well, look at this.

Like, this

is

who

you are

being passed

down.

And, you know, I

think...

I honestly think I could talk to

someone that is, you know,

a worshipper of science and

be like...

And, you know, they think, oh, well, God

is an evil God because, you

know, He created or He allowed

us to sin

and, you know,

always evil for

all that different stuff.

It's like, well, but look, like

we chose to sin

and now we are

passing it on because we

continue in sin,

which is what the Bible

says.

Yeah.

Like...

It makes it a lot

easier for Ken

to

keep

going.

Yeah.

Um...

No wonder

Lamech

wanted to be

70 times

more

cursed.

Yeah.

Well, yeah.

And there's that

same, like,

escalation.

Like,

if...

Going back to the whole

business thing that I was

talking about,

if

there

is a sin in

Walt Disney

and there

are people who are trying to be

like Walt Disney who

work for

Disney,

that sin is going to be

passed

down

if they

experience it, if they see it,

whatever.

But

if it

is ingrained

in the structure

or in how

things are done at the

business,

then that's going to be...

That's going to continue.

Yeah.

Right?

Culturally.

Yeah.

And

it...

We...

It gets worse and

worse and worse because

not only

is the

originator who is looked

up to

being

mimicked, but

what happens

as time goes on, we get

better

at

things.

We improve it.

We become...

doesn't That matter.

Yeah.

We

become

more efficient.

We...

You know, because

we

have a desire to

have easier access to

the things that we

want...

The things that we want.

The things that we're holding onto.

You

don't have

to be around for very

long.

You don't have to understand a lot,

understand.

We started

at

Jabal,

Intense and

Livestock

and we're all the

way over here with

fast food restaurants

and

fast

housing

production.

Like...

Fast house restaurants.

Fast house restaurants.

Fast house restaurants.

But...

But...

Like, we're

constantly in this state of

doing better, more

efficiency,

you know, and granted, you know,

part of that is money, but

also like we're

just...

We naturally, as humans,

try to do things better

and faster.

And so sin gets better.

Yeah.

And I think it's our innate desire to

create.

Yeah.

And that's probably

also what the passage

was pointing out is like like

these...

these sinful

people,

despite their

horrible

sinfulness, like they

still wanted

to enact

God's

image.

Like even though

Adam

screwed it up

and like made

them sons of sin,

they – oh, that's crazy.

I should

copyright

that, trademark that.

Sons of sin.

Sons of sin.

Okay.

They still

originally were made in God's image.

Yeah.

And God created.

So we just have this innate desire

to be really

good at

creating

anything.

Yeah.

And I mean,

yeah,

epigenetics just makes it

so much harder.

Just like – just

what's mind

-blowing to me is

everybody's got bad

habits and everybody

judges themselves and

shames themselves for the bad

habits that they have and the

addictions that they have.

But what they discount

is the fact that

their ancestors

handed the

step down to them.

And they have the opportunity

to

end it.

Don't end yourself.

That's not what I mean.

End the generational

curses.

Yeah.

Or at least

give

your

kids

a level playing

field.

Like something easier to

start off with.

Like you can – so

there's

all

these rich people that

like have their

kids go and

like

waste all the

wealth.

That could happen.

But still,

like you want to be the

wealthy billionaire

when it comes to your character

before

you even have your kids

because they

are going to

– better than wealth

– inherit

a

lot of that character.

And it's just going to be who

they are.

And if you then

raise them

in the way that they should go

in God's word,

there's a very

good likelihood that they're going

to do the same to their own

children.

And that's, like you said, going

to continue on and

on and on and on.

And it's not only going to

be a physical

thing.

It's not only going to be your

family that

is blessed

by this.

It's going to

be

more and more

generations that can

turn into

hundreds of

thousands,

millions of people that

are now going

to have

a

much

easier time

getting

saved and going to heaven

for eternity because

of something that you did

now

to

make it

easier

for the

generations beyond you

to

not sin.

Like that's huge.

The opportunity that you

have.

I thought about this

as you were

talking.

What do we say to

people

when

they

mess

up and

they're

telling themselves that

they've

basically failed?

It's okay.

You can try again.

Yes.

Happens to everybody.

That's – yeah.

I

feel like I'm hitting

around the target.

I already said

you'll get it next time.

The Bible says

righteous

man

falls

seven

times and rises again.

The wicked man stumbles in

times of calamity.

I don't know.

What are you thinking?

The fact

that you are

trying

is

a testament

to

what

it is that you

want.

A testament to

the fact

that it's worth

it.

I

think

about the rich

person and

their rich kid.

Like a

lot of those kids aren't

really going to realize.

They really aren't.

They truly are going to believe

that they're

fine.

There's nothing they need to worry

about.

There's nothing that they need to

change.

And a lot of them,

probably no one's going to tell

them.

But they're going to still suffer.

There's still going to be a lot of things.

And they're not going to have the

resources for it.

They're not going to know what to do about
it.

They're just going to keep

going down

this path

and then

they're

just going to die.

But the

ones that do realize,

they discount

the fact that they even

realized in the first

place.

Us having

the Holy Spirit, we need to

realize that we

realize it at

all.

That's part of the

gift.

That's part of

the

opportunity opportunity that

we have is that we realize

that at all.

Otherwise,

we're

not going anywhere.

You can't grow unless you know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's encouraging.

Yeah, absolutely.

It's often discouraging

for me to just like,

no, I've been

fighting this thing for

so long and I haven't

made any progress.

Yeah.

The progress is I

still know.

I still desire

what is good and I

still am

fighting for it.

No.

And it might take another

decade,

but.

Well,

and if we think about this

epigenetics thing, like,

if you

just

continue

in sin,

essentially passing it

on.

You're cursing.

You're cursing your kids.

You're not blessing your family, you're

cursing.

Yeah.

So,

if you start fighting

it.

You're both giving them the

ability to fight other things.

Yeah.

And hopefully

a level playing field

on that

sin itself.

Yeah.

That you fought and won.

Yeah.

With the Holy Spirit.

And that's a blessing.

Huge blessing.

It's unsaid.

So,

okay.

I'm just going to go out with

it.

Okay.

Most men struggle with pornography.

Yeah.

I do.

Do you?

Mm -hmm.

Okay.

So, what would you give

to

go back

to your younger self

and prevent

that

boy from

getting into it in

the first place?

What would you say?

Is there anything you could say

to prevent your younger

self from getting into

it?

I don't know.

I don't think I could.

I mean, realistically, probably not.

Yeah.

I don't think I could.

Yeah.

Like, younger boys are going to be

curious and they're going to look

for it and they're going to get addicted.

Yeah.

Right?

I've thought about that so

often.

Like, I do not want

my kids to have to go through

this.

Mm -hmm.

Ever.

What would I say to them

to get it through

their thick skulls

that

this is not

something that they want to play with?

Mm -hmm.

That it's going

to torture them

and it's going to

win a lot.

Mm -hmm.

And they

don't have to deal with

it.

They don't.

They can skip it.

Mm

-hmm.

Yeah.

You can skip it.

Yeah.

It's not a mandatory

class.

But no matter how

vehement you are,

they're still not going to –

they're going to go and do their own

thing.

They're going to do what

they

feel is

easiest for them to do.

Yeah.

The only possible

way that I can

both have

the conversation

and

have

as much influence as I

possibly can have

on

them

is

by

bridling

my sin

now,

waiting as long as

possible for

that epigenetic cycle

to happen.

Sure.

So that they have a level playing

field.

Yeah.

And I don't even have to

have the conversation.

I'm going to have the conversation

still.

Yeah.

Because it's that important.

Yeah.

But I don't want them playing

from a losing

position.

Yeah.

Like, that's the

only possible way

that they're going to

have a

shot

in hell at

avoiding that.

That's it.

And that's epigenetics.

And it's crazy

because

that's

what God

has given

us.

And,

you

know,

to me,

the whole epigenetics

thing is so

encouraging

because

when it

feels like it's just

this spiritual

– especially for

me – when it feels like

it's just this – like I

have to

in some

way convince

– like

language

often

feels

so

immaterial

and

like it's just wind.

Mm -hmm.

And it's just floating

off in the distance.

And I

mean, that's

how I feel

oftentimes when I

speak is that I'm just

blowing out air.

And that's how the

spiritual feels

is that it's

just this air.

You know, I can feel it.

I feel the effects of it.

I see the effects of it.

I

experience

it, but

like,

ah,

how

I do

this.

And, you know,

knowing and seeing and

experiencing

and

understanding

that it's

not

just

air.

Like funny enough,

there's molecules in the air.

But

it's not

just this like thing

that I can't

really touch or

see or

whatever, But

but it's there.

it's real, it's physical,

it's whatever.

And knowing that

the

things that I'm fighting against,

the things that I believe

in, the things that I,

the behaviors, the good

behaviors and the bad behaviors,

like all of it, it's not

just this air,

it's like.

It's real.

It's real, it's

bodily,

it's.

And God

calls

us, asks us to

give heart, soul, mind, and strength

because

it's not

just air.

It's all of that.

It is heart, it

is soul, it is

mind and it is strength.

It's, you know, it's

all wrapped up in one.

And.

just say things because it

sounds nice.

Yeah.

And He gives

us

every,

every little sign,

every little thing, and it

all fits together.

Our bodies, our

minds,

our hearts,

you know, the emotion.

All of it, all of it fits

together.

And like that

just makes it, like when

you told me about that, I was,

I don't know.

It just, it set my

mind so at

ease.

Right.

That I.

And it doesn't give you an

excuse to continue with it.

No, no, no.

At all.

It actually gives me more

of an excuse

to stop.

Because like you said, Lee,

if I keep fighting.

It's going to be worth it.

It's going to be worth it.

And you know,

that's going to show up in my

kids

in some way, shape or form.

Maybe it needs

to unfold some

more, but like it's

there.

And God gave me the opportunity

to put it there.

That's crazy.

You have the tools.

Yeah,

absolutely.

made You up the tools.

And then I not

only get to do it now

to set up for

later,

I get to do it later,

you know, reading the

word to my kids,

praying over my

kids.

Heart, soul, mind.

Yeah.

What is it?

Love the Lord your God with all your
heart, with

all your soul, with all your mind, with
all your

strength.

Yeah.

With everything.

Teach your kids the same way.

Crazy.

How do you teach your kids

genetically?

Apparently you.

By doing it first.

Yeah.

What is, I'm trying

to think of it, but it's like,

yeah, you

have

to

live.

You have to live it.

To live is Christ.

Yeah, that is king.

All right, so perspective of

someone who

has habits,

sins that they wish they

didn't have

before they actually had

their kids that they have now.

What can we say to them?

Because this could be kind of discouraging

to them.

All of it.

Is

a

means to

ease,

not a means

to solution.

You're not curing anything.

You're not fixing it

entirely.

You're merely

just

putting

pillars

up

for them to hang

onto,

right?

Or if

you think about

it like rock climbing,

you're going up the mountain first

and you're putting up

the handholds.

Here's where it's

at.

And then if you

look at it when they're born,

okay, well, hey, I'm gonna teach

you how to

go up here.

I'm gonna show you.

I'm going to be there with

you to actually do

it.

And then

afterwards,

it's

them

doing it

themselves

and even putting up their own

little handholds,

footholds and all that stuff.

Yeah,

it's gonna be

easier to put

up all the

different things,

but it doesn't mean they can't

scale the mountain.

It just means that

they're gonna have to

do what you

did.

Are you currently doing?

Are you currently doing?

It's like, are you gonna give

them more

resources or are you not?

And that's the thing

with

metacognition.

When you think

about thinking,

are you thinking about

what it

is that you

are doing

and how it

impacts everything?

And

metacognition

is

widely

the gateway

towards

change,

towards change of

behavior

because how you think

informs

how you're gonna act.

And so

when

you already have

kids,

it's like, okay, well,

nothing,

I mean, in the census, in the Bible,

your heart has to change.

It's a heart issue.

Your heart has to change.

And you can't change their heart.

They were they were still born a in a

sinner.

You can't change anything about that,

but you can

change your heart,

or excuse me, you can

change

your perspective.

You can change your beliefs the way that

you change.

your beliefs, yeah.

And that changes the way that you act

and that changes what

your son and

what your daughter sees you

doing.

Yeah, and that

doesn't change

as you get

older.

We all experience this.

As you get older,

you're still looking at

your parents.

You're still looking at the people that
you

look up to.

Or you hang out with.

Or hang out with, or whatever.

You're still watching.

And so.

So this is almost an

opportunity even.

Yeah.

To do this

with

the people around you.

Whether that's your son, your

daughter,

at an appropriate

time.

But it's,

yes,

life is discouraging.

No.

And the things that we do, do

have consequences.

Like real

distressing,

horrifying consequences.

But you aren't

causing your

kids to be

sinful.

You've just made it, you've

made this slide easier

to slide down.

But so did your parents.

Yeah.

And so did their parents before them.

So

it's,

we all have to deal with this,

but we

all

individually

choose

son.

You're not.

You're not choosing it for them.

You're not.

They chose to

be sinful

little brats all on their

own.

So did you.

Right.

So

it's,

sin is discouraging.

Yeah.

But the

facts of

epigenetics

doesn't have to

be.

It can

be

a

motivator for someone who doesn't

have kids, like you and

I,

but

it's

also a motivator for

someone who's already had their

kids.

Like epigenetics means

the way that you

express,

that the way that your genes are expressed

comes out in your behavior and physical.

That means that the work you

do now

and then

maintain

can carry on

through the rest of your life.

And yeah, it doesn't affect

the generations

beyond

you,

just by

the way that

you've bound up your

DNA now,

but it affects your

life.

And the

spiritual

meaning and the

physical that your

kids see in the people

that got

his place in your life to

influence,

see it.

And influence doesn't

have to be just

genetics.

Yeah, it isn't.

It isn't just

genetics.

And this whole thing started with me

thinking to myself,

why or what

can I do?

What would I do?

What would I say

to my

children so

that they don't have to go through what
I'm

going through?

Cause it's hell.

I wouldn't wish this on anybody.

And the position that

I'm in allows me to

think about that in a

genetic kind of way,

which is nuts.

But if I was in that

position, I would be thinking

the same thing.

I would be having the conversations.

I would be doing it myself.

I would be

doing

whatever I can

to

help them

be surrounded with

people that are good for them

and make it as

easy as possible for

them not to sin.

But

we're

all still sinners.

And if they choose to do that,

that's on them.

It's not on you.

It's just like

God gave us

all these things not to

take away

our agency.

Our agency

because

it

is through

our

agency

that we

love

Him.

But it's

also not through

these things in which

He

saves

us from sin.

It's actually through

the

death of His son on the

cross.

And

through

the giving of the Holy

Spirit, are we able

to

overcome

sin, right?

And what's interesting

with this whole

epigenetics thing

and

all

that other stuff, God put

those things

as the

footholds

before we could get

there.

Excuse me.

Jesus put those

things

up

there.

Yeah.

As our hand

holds,

gave us the word,

gave us the spirit,

gave gave us

the body.

bodies that we

have,

gave us

the

past,

the ancestors that we

have, gave us all these

different things

for

the life that

we have to live

for

ease,

especially when it comes

to His purposes

for

His glory and for our good.

Like

the

goodness that is

present there was given to

us by God as

a

handholds

we get to grip onto.

From both the very beginning

and from

what Jesus

did and what the Holy Spirit

continues to do.

Yeah.

Nuts.

I wasn't thinking about

it that way, but yeah,

that's crazy.

Yeah.

It all works

out.

God is

making

it as easy as

possible for us to

get

out of our muck.

Like I just

said that I wouldn't wish

this on anybody

and

God

wouldn't wish it on anybody.

He didn't

have to experience it.

We don't have to experience it and He

didn't experience it

because

He's God.

It's pretty dope.

I wish I didn't have to experience

it.

Yeah.

But yeah, Jesus,

Holy Spirit, God is

making it

like

any father

would as easy as

possible for his

children

to

not

have to go through hell.

No.

Not have to go to hell.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

Should we

end the

podcast?

End right there?

Yeah.

Okay.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's encouraging.

It really is.

It really is.

And these

things are

present in the

Word of God.

He works all

things

for

His glory

and for our

good.

And He

knows

every

hair on our head.

Or lack of.

Or lack of.

Right.

He knows.

He's outside of

time.

He knows everything

from the beginning to

the end.

And we look at

those things

and we view

them in our limited

way.

But it's like when we come to something

like this

in our

conversation right now,

it's not

extra

to,

it's not extra

understanding to

that because

all of that

points directly to

itself

towards that truth.

But we just,

God just gave us an

extra little piece

that makes it a little

bit easier for our

tiny little human

minds

to

understand the truth that

is right there in front of us that

we've probably been spouting

most of our lives

or that we've heard most

of our lives

and

it's just,

we got to discover it

now.

And God right now

for His, again,

for His purposes

reveals it to

us

to carry

into that

epigenetic pool

that we're

constantly building with our

behavior, with our thoughts

and everything.

Yeah.

I just want to end this with like

a story,

an example.

Okay.

There was a

horrible experiment

that some

scientists chose to do.

I can't get behind it.

Drowning rats

was the experiment.

I don't know where I heard this

from,

but it was recent.

So apologies to whoever

actually

spoke

about this first.

But

the

experiment

was how long would a

rat last in a

bucket of water basically

before they drowned.

And it was

pretty

short.

I don't know the exact time,

but let's say I'm going

to be generous, like

let's say

six

hours.

Okay.

And I'm pretty sure it's way less than
that.

I'm sure it's under an hour.

Yeah.

I

think

there was something else.

They were trying to figure out

what

would cause

the,

oh, shout out.

I heard this on Jordan

Harbinger's

podcast.

Great podcast.

Very

brainiac

kind of podcast.

It's getting late.

It does.

My words aren't working.

Shout out to Jordan.

Jordan Harbinger.

He's got some good stuff.

The

difference

maker was

when the

scientists would

put the rat in

the bucket of water.

They would proceed

to swim

and

almost drown.

And then they would pull the rat back

out.

And then put the rat

back in.

And guess how long that

rat would swim

after that one

interaction,

that one bit of hope?

How long?

From less than an hour

probably,

but say six hours.

To 60

hours.

So one little bit of hope.

Yeah.

Cause that rat to swim

hours instead of an hour.

Yeah.

To live longer basically.

To try harder for

longer.

Yeah.

Guess what this epigenetic conversation

is?

And God does it

so many times in our lives.

Yeah.

He pulls us up out of

the muck, which gives us

a little bit of light, a little bit of
hope,

and

allows us

to

struggle

on.

Allows us to

continue to

gain

spiritual strength.

And it

sucks.

Really sucks.

But

God

is making it easier

for

us

to

struggle,

to fight.

And just like the wealthy kid

who didn't earn it,

would he lose it

all

if he

just received

it?

If God

healed you and

I of all of our

habits, all of our sins,

how easy would it be

to

go back into the bucket and

drown again?

Yeah.

That's what Jesus was preaching.

Yeah.

It's not about the bread.

You're missing the point.

I am the bread of life.

Yeah.

And it's like, yeah, I

can meet all your

needs.

I can

give

you all the healing

and

shelter

and whatever it is

that you think that you need.

But in reality,

it's not what's actually

going to get you

out of the bucket, I

guess.

It's not the point.

It's not going to keep you

alive.

Dude,

good stuff.

Yeah, encouraging.

Dude, I was halfway through

this pod.

I'm like,

are we going to end on

a low note?

Like a no

wonder kind of

note?

Yeah.

Nope.

Nope.

We sure are.

Yeah.

That's so funny.

It's crazy.

Yeah.

Every time, man.

Nearly every time.

Yeah.

Seems like it.

Yeah.

That's nuts, man.

Yeah.

Dude,

it's a blessing to be on this podcast.

Really is.

Well, this is

episode 12.

Funnily enough,

called Sevenfold,

which we didn't talk about the Sevenfold

at all.

Yeah, no, we didn't.

No, we didn't.

We did talk about A -fold.

A -fold.

Yeah.

The flock.

Yeah.

The fold of animals,

I guess.

Oh,

okay.

There we go.

But we

hope that this was edifying,

that it

was,

I don't know,

exciting

and

interesting and

not just -

Yeah, encouraging and not

just two

weirdos talking,

but two weirdos - Not

just that.

Yeah.

The two weirdos

working out

live

things

that - We should

be

thinking about.

We should be thinking about.

And that truthfully,

we want

you

to be thinking about

and

fighting

just

as hard.

Yeah.

And

I

brought

up

metacognition,

thinking about

thinking,

and

that's what we should

be doing,

is thinking about

our thought life.

And if you're in Christ, you

have

a

really easy means

of doing so because he's

ministering to you

- Through his word?

Through his word.

Through prayer?

Through prayer.

And through his church.

His church

through

this

podcast,

hopefully,

through whatever

media that you are

consuming

that is for

the glory of God,

which is part of his church.

But we

get

so caught up in,

oh, it's not - In the

minutia.

Yeah.

It's not explicitly

this thing.

It's like, no.

The church goes out and

functions in the world.

Yeah.

That's what this podcast is.

Yeah.

So if you

are enjoying this,

if it is helping,

helping

in the fight,

whatever that is, helping you run

the race just a

little bit harder,

God isn't going to take

you out of the race.

In fact, In fact, he wants -

you in the race.

And I've said this a million

times.

It's because your

experience is not your

own.

Okay.

I know the episode's over,

but I just realized why Paul

called it a race.

Yeah.

You know how you're like

miles

in and you feel like you're

dying

and you can't breathe at all?

That's what it feels like when

you

wish you could conquer your

sand and you just

can't.

Yeah.

And you just wish you weren't

running at all.

Yeah.

So keep running the race.

Yeah.

Keep going.

Absolutely.

Be encouraged.

And the great

thing about this race is that we get to
run it

with other people.

Yeah.

If you've ever been in a race,

there's this thing called

tailwind.

You're riding someone right

behind somebody.

And what's crazy

is

if

they are there

for

you,

you're going to take off right

past them

because you've been

riding on their coattails the whole

time.

And that's what they want

is for you

to be able to launch

yourself forward

because

you're working together.

And again,

another analogy that works

just as well.

Yeah.

The, uh, that person

is not running the race

for you, but they are

making it easier for you.

Yeah, absolutely.

Crazy.

All right.

We should stop.

We got to stop this podcast because we're
going

to get more

into it.

Um,

if you have comments,

you know, we have, this will

be on Spotify

and who knows

Apple podcasts,

when Apple podcasts,

YouTube,

um,

all the things.

Yeah.

And,

uh,

you're not going to probably listen

to this live because I only

had one person in our life.

I don't really know Steven

Steven.

You know,

we do,

we do this every Saturday.

Uh,

hopefully God willing.

Uh, sometimes we

don't,

but every

Saturday,

round seven, I think

is when we start.

So seven, we

shoot for six, usually seven.

Yeah.

Sometimes eight.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But hopefully

we get

more of a hard

time that we actually

do it at.

Um, because that would be

ideal for our listeners

in the future.

Um, but leave us

comments,

constructive criticism,

um,

ideas,

whatever.

And,

uh,

yeah,

leave us some reviews because

those help a podcast.

Yeah.

I hear a lot.

So a lot.

Yeah.

Crazy amount.

Would really appreciate it if you left the

review.

Yeah.

Leave a question in the review.

Leave an answer in the review.

Leave

a

encouraging message.

Uh,

leave a prayer request.

Yeah.

Bang your head against the keyboard.

Share a story.

Just make sure it's a five star story.

Yeah.

But, uh, do we have any

news before we,

uh,

break out after prayer?

Should we pray out and do news?

No, no, no, no.

prayer The should be the ending.

Okay.

Uh, I don't think, do we have

news?

Maybe.

I don't think there's anything

major.

We're getting better at the podcast.

Yeah.

Things are getting more

refined.

Yeah.

Still messy, but still the process.

We still need Stephen

to

be able to work his computer

camera.

Um, that's why we only have two angles

right now.

Yeah.

But

it happens.

Yeah.

Um,

yeah, I don't, I can't think of anything.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I'll pray us

out.

Sure.

And then, uh,

what?

See you next time.

See you next time.

Sure.

Thank you, Lord, for this day that you've
given

to us, um,

and this opportunity that you've given

to us to,

uh,

dive into your word

to

ponder

and wonder

and,

uh,

just,

just divide

what it

is that you have for

us.

Um,

wisdom that you've given to

us,

uh,

hard facts,

science that you've given to us,

just everything

around us,

all of creation,

uh,

declares your glory,

Lord.

And

we get to uncover

that every day of our lives

as we

live

in

your creation.

Um, and as we

also

struggle through

it,

um,

we get to see all

the handholds that you

placed for

us at

the beginning of time.

Um, and Lord,

we are so

undeserving

of

that,

uh,

foresight,

uh, placing those

things before

us,

um,

complaining and, and,

and

yelling and

screaming about

this race that

we're, we're running,

um, that

isn't

for us.

Uh, though it is

for our

good,

but it is for your glory,

and

it

is

so

much more than just

dirt

on the ground that

we kick up

and

trip over, but

it is

leading

towards a goal,

towards the end,

where we get

all the people

that we brought

along

with us, there's all the people that you

told us, that you led us

to, to plant a

seed, and some that

we get to harvest later

on.

We get to come to the

end

with

our brothers and sisters in Christ

and dwell with

you,

having run the good

race.

Lord, that is our

desire,

and we do it so

imperfectly.

We do it so badly.

But you

have given

us so much

to be able to run this

race.

You give us hope, but you put

us back in because

there's more to be done,

more work to

be done.

So, Lord, I pray that this podcast

is an

honest reflection

of that

as

three

to four

imperfect

people

sit

here and talk

and

divide

your word and

speak about

the decay of

this life.

I pray that this

is a resource

to fellow believers

and

unbelievers

seeking to

learn

what this life is

about and

how to be honest through it.

And we pray this all in your

name.

Amen.

Amen.

Episode 12.

Episode 12.

Peace out.

Nuts.

What a crazy

episode, dude.

My goodness.

I never expect it.

You never do.

Always bless me.

Probably never.